Thermal what do I need

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  • Thermal what do I need

    So I have been given permission to look at night vision scopes
    Have been looking at the pulser thermion range
    Don’t want to spend money on ir and then do what most people do and upgrade to thermal
    Problem is dealer a said buy this one
    Dealer b said buy a different spec and dealer c said a different spec again
    All have different levels of scopes available
    So what is the real difference between the XQ XM and the XP 50 scopes and what is best suited to fox shooting
    Dont want to throw away money on a scope that is more than I need but don’t want to be sol something that is not suitable
    Thanks A-bolt

  • #2
    Hi mate the difference between the models listed is. XQ are 17 pixel pitch with a 383 x 288 resolution. XM are 12 pixel pitch with a 320 x 240 resolution. XP are 17 pixel pitch with a 640 x 480 resolution. So depending on lens size and sensor size dictates the base optical magnification. Example XQ 50 is 3.5 mag , XM 50 is 5.5 mag, XP 50 is 2 mag. So depending on what sort of distance you need to shoot depends on how much magnification you will need. The different resolution levels will give a better image the higher resolution you go. I have shot foxes/cats with my old model Apex XD38 ( 1.5 mag ish ?? 384x288 res) easily out to 120 yds. I have just got a new XP50 Trail 2 and with the higher resolution I can digitally zoom in more ( has more pixels to play with) and reckon I could shoot easily out to @200 yds. I believe the XM50's are very popular in the US for the Coyote hunters who shoot further. It also depends on what your budget is. Getting the best "bang for your buck". No pun intended. I have looked through a XM38 Thermion (no longer made) , XQ50 Thermion and the image for a lower resolution unit were good. The one unit I think is good value for money is the Thermion or Trail XQ50 with 3.5 base mag. On a side note the Trail's now come only with a built in laser range finder which could be handy for those long shots. I have used both Digital and Thermal scopes with built in LRFs and find them great as at night in can be hard to judge distance. Any way just my two cents. If you are in Brisbane PM me and you can have a look through my old Apex and new Trail. Cheers. Cusco.

    Check out the link provided. Scroll down to the chart.
    https://www.wolfeyes.com.au/pulsar-t...xp38-xq50-xm50

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    • #3
      What he said!

      i have run the gamut of spotlights, IR, digital night vis and thermal and my current setup is a thermal monocular for scanning (sometimes handheld, sometimes mounted on the ute with a monitor inside) and a rifle mounted Pulsar Trail thermal scope. If I were to do it again I’d still get a thermal monocular and I’d probably go for the mid or low end Thermion scope, just because I don’t actually need a $10k unit to do what I want to do (check out some of the video on my Back to the Bush series to see what I do!) If you cant afford both, get the rifle scope with a QD mount so you can scan with it without the rifle. I’d also recommend getting a dedicated night gun so you’re not dicking about changing scopes. It’s a big investment so take your time and do what is right for your circumstances!
      "Have more than you show
      Talk less than you know"

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      • #4
        Just a comment, a lot of people confuse IMAGE INTENSIFYING and IR.

        Thermal is IR, not Image intensifying. FLIR is "Forward looking infrared"

        Image intensifying will "see" IR light in various bands, but it needs light of some kind to work. Gen 1 will "magnify" any available light to about 1000 times (which is NOTHING regardless of what it may seem) and all the way up to Gen 3 at about 70,000 times.

        Thermal detects "sees" IR in the 8-14 um band.

        Digital is another matter, not worth the money as it needs a truck load of IR to make it workable and nocturnal animals can see IR even covert IR of 920 - 940 nano-meters as well as the bright red light generated from most illuminators.

        Sadly, I have not yet been convinced that Pulsar have fixed their loss of zero problems yet with the new models, otherwise they are or could be a good deal again. It took some time to be realized previously.

        There is sometimes advice that you do not need to have a long detection range, you certainly need more than you would expect!!
        It is always better to go to a 640 x 480 FPA with at least 3 x optical or your "zoom" is not that good. Unfortunately this does cost you.
        Thermal monocular or scope first, scope without question. Don't muck about with QD mounts, set up "dedicated" from the start.
        Be careful with just figures based on magnification, it can lead you into making a bad decision.

        I believe I can give you some real info if you like to give me a call sometime. Most dealers are not serious users and often not users at all and do not understand the specifications of the products they sell.
        You should find my info on the site I believe, otherwise send me a PM first.
        As I am not only a dealer listed here. (see ad). I am also a contract shooter, mainly Govt. and have been using thermal for about 10 years now, everything from commercial grade up to and including military equipment. Also Gen 3 image intensifying (military) items in certain circumstances. Yes you can legally have military gear in Australia.
        Thermal can be expensive but a poor choice is FAR more expensive.


        www.australianshootingservices.com.au
        Thermal Imaging Specialists.
        Importer / distributor for General Starlight Company Inc.
        Including Mil Spec.Thermal and Image Intensifying NV.
        Distributor of Pulsar / Yukon night vision.

        Comment


        • #5
          It all depend on your budget, as others have pointed out already.

          DIGITAL IR is practically same resolution as a good grade gen2 IIT, but lacks the light amplification. But with a good 850 950nm wave length iR light will be OK for taking shots out too 200 and will let you see a little further beyond target.

          Thermal will give you passive shooting also the ability to see what beyond the target. where IR shooting most times requires a IR light source for it to function well even a gen3 will at times need a IR source.
          (can give you away from the red glow from the IR light source.)

          ​​​

          I use thermal, digital IR and use to use IIT optical devices (alot of care is needed for IIT devices as they can get damaged easily) digital optics don't suffer the damage that a IIT device can when exposed to a bright light source. Most new IIT do have in built protections to limit current or turn off the power supply, they can still fail. Digital options are not so easily damaged. They can take a bit more user abuse, where IIT you need to be aware of light sources alot more and other party's if with you.

          ​Most of my shooting I use Thermal these days.

          With Thermal, and digital IR NV you are looking at a 2D image, with the IIT gen 1-2-3 it's still a 3D image, the 2D you do get compression and it takes a little while to get use to distances but after awhile it'll be natural. The Depth perception is different to a more traditional Tubed NV device.

          For some work I use the digital IR as I use that for swapping from 22lr too 300blkout.

          I keep the thermal on the 204, it's been zeroed once and not touched the zero in 12 months, over 400 rnds down the tube, since its been mounted, I Check zero, but yet to modify it. That's a Gsci scope from Proshooter.... Been worth every penny.

          What ever you go with, you got to plan on keeping it as second hand market they loose value fast, also if you do get a thermal that requires a end use lic you can't resell it. Or a gen3 device that may require a end use lic.

          Night vision is expensive, you can get top quality day optics at the cost of a semi decent NV device. But there us alot of crap out there two that cost just as much.

          Pro shooters been in the game a long time, he knows his stuff and won't lead you down a murky path.

          Still it's got to fit with your budget and what you're requirements are for the device.

          Welcome to the rabbits hole.
          Last edited by Skip; 10-08-2020, 08:17 PM.

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          • #6
            A quick one.
            Is the XQ50 OK to use on a 12 gauge shotgun?

            Comment


            • #7
              Just a clarification on Skips comment re the "controlled item" end user, it can be sold here in Australia, but you should always obtain a similar "end user" statement from the buyer. This safeguards you from anything illegal the new owner does with it, especially if he / she tries to send it out of the country which will cost you 20 years if caught and you are the "only current owner", otherwise no problem at all.
              Re the 12 gge question, it is suggested that it is OK. I guess it would not matter too much with a shotgun that it will probably keep shifting zero??

              Be aware, be very aware, once you go down the thermal road you are doomed . I won't lead you down a murky path (thanks Skip) but I am happy to lead you down the never ending one.
              www.australianshootingservices.com.au
              Thermal Imaging Specialists.
              Importer / distributor for General Starlight Company Inc.
              Including Mil Spec.Thermal and Image Intensifying NV.
              Distributor of Pulsar / Yukon night vision.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by proshooter View Post
                Just a clarification on Skips comment re the "controlled item" end user, it can be sold here in Australia, but you should always obtain a similar "end user" statement from the buyer. This safeguards you from anything illegal the new owner does with it, especially if he / she tries to send it out of the country which will cost you 20 years if caught and you are the "only current owner", otherwise no problem at all.
                Re the 12 gge question, it is suggested that it is OK. I guess it would not matter too much with a shotgun that it will probably keep shifting zero??

                Be aware, be very aware, once you go down the thermal road you are doomed . I won't lead you down a murky path (thanks Skip) but I am happy to lead you down the never ending one.
                Thanks for that. I googled the Pulsar "Shifting Zero" thing as I had not heard if it. Now thats opened up another can of worms. I have not had a problem on my .223 but according to the US sites it is a temperature related problem. New prospective buyers should be aware of it.
                http://lonestarboars.com/threads/any...ng-zero.11854/
                The Pulsar dealers there seem to be aware of it and exchange the units or do an upgrade. Thats all above my pay grade.
                Another one. https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/T...19-/18-504706/
                Last edited by Tickford; 23-08-2020, 10:17 AM.

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