Match day handgun issues

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  • Match day handgun issues

    Over the past six months or so I have become aware that on match-day MANY shooters have issues, round did not fire, extractor problems, cycling issues and even handgun aimed will not hit target, several times also no powder in case, fired, NOT good a outcome, squib round.
    I make no claims as to being an expert on the subject, however for shooters and many are new or less than 1-2 years of shooting, or old time shooter, NEW time re-loader.

    There are cases were the shooter loads his own ammunition, using wrong powders, in untried and high amounts, causing a dangerous pressure build up in the chamber of the pistol. Each shooting discipline has its own powders, projectiles and loads, major or minor. When loading why have more recoil than needed to make the power factor.
    The best idea when reloading is to consult the powder manufacturers loading instructions, ADI produces a hard copy from dealers and an online copy for all. Easy to find on Google. The manufacturer KNOWS what powder is BEST suited for achieving what P/F. Never exceed their loading instructions or use what you think is a powder that sounds great, or your friend use it, when in doubt ask a person at your club who is an expert, there are many all over the place. they can advise you. I am also aware that Winchester Powder has a hard copy and possibly online details, I support our local brand ADI only.

    Primers come in hard and soft, for revolvers I never use anything else than FEDERAL< small pistol, also they have small rifle for major loads, CCI are good, Winchester I use sometimes, and Fiocchi and there are others. I use Federal first or CCI, never a problem. Some people don't like Federal, there are others.
    When seating the primer MAKE sure the primer is just lower than the base of the case, so it sits absolutely flat on glass and remains still if shaken slightly.
    FOR matches ensure the primer is correctly seated, look twice, then for a match barrel drop each round you intend to use, disassemble the semi first and use the barrel only, with revolver drop the round in the chamber and NEVER close the cylinder. This is something good shooters do all the time, match or practice, a good habit to have. Be safe, no rounds left over after you finish barrel dropping. Also a perfect time to examine the case for cracks and other issues, have MATCH grade cases for the few matches that count, and then junk rounds, I have reloaded them in 9mm .38 super, .357sig, .38 special used over 30 times, all perfect. Matches get the newer rounds.

    So, when shooting a match and the round fails to fire, WHY, in a semi is the gun in battery, slide fully closed? the round may have a bulge, the primer was not seated properly, is the round has a bulge and the gun won't go into battery or it does it may be VERY difficult to rack, hence barrel drop all rounds.
    Squib round, primer only, when fired the projectile is 2 inches inside the barrel, YOU need to get this out with a rod, ASK.

    Cycling issues are when you use the wrong recoil spring, or have insufficient powder in your round to make the gun cycle correctly, or the round is the wrong length. Winchester loading manual has the correct overall lengths printed and there is other printed material on the web, or at your pistol club.

    Sometimes also your extractor may be worn, needs replacing, most clubs always have some expert or very knowledgeable person there who can assist, usually the information and assistance comes free, buy them a beer, also once per year, change the firing pin, and extractor, and at this time minutely examine your total gun disassembled, magnifying glass in hand. I am aware a friend once found a hairline crack, to much powder and needs a new slide. It does not hurt the gun to do this every time your clean it, and I KNOW you would clean it every time you use it.

    When you buy and receive your new toy, TAKE it to a range, AT 10 metres, sight is in, PERFECTLY, then do this at 15 metres then 25 and finally at 50 metres, prior going to a match sight the gun in again, it will save you a great deal of angst, then once you know it is sighted in, all rounds where barrel dropped, you loaded the rounds and checked VISUALLY that each round got the correct amount of powder, you can now relax and know the gun will work flawlessly, NO pressure, shoot well.

    When loading, and you know what amount of powder each case needs, check every 50-100 rounds, weigh the powder, good loading technique.
    Projectiles, good are Hawksbury river, Top score, Westcasting and a host of others, copper wash from Frontier and Berry are very popular, NEVER buy a round when you can save hundreds by reloading your own. Safe shooting. WHEN in doubt ASK someone who knows what is correct, don't ever guess.

  • #2
    Depends on the particular gun, some are very prone to jamming from dust/grit. Under those range circumstances I've seen shooters having to quickly strip their guns and scrub in between stages. Usually applies to those shooting Open, however...lots of stuff to go wrong. Other cases as you say ammo is very definately the common culprit.

    Comment


    • #3
      [quote="susanwest" post=43649]
      Sometimes also your extractor may be worn, needs replacing, most clubs always have some expert or very knowledgeable person there who can assist, usually the information and assistance comes free, buy them a beer, also once per year, change the firing pin, and extractor.
      quote]



      A firing pin and extractor will last many many years, and tens of thousands of rounds. Dont wast your time and money swapping parts for the sake of swapping them. get them tuned, and if you are a quamby, take it to a smith for a check over.

      Comment


      • Greenwich-biker
        Greenwich-biker commented
        Editing a comment
        You forgot to mention the gremlin.

        The best laid plans etc etc

      • Guest's Avatar
        Guest commented
        Editing a comment
        [quote="Oddball" post=43661]
        Originally posted by susanwest" post=43649
        Sometimes also your extractor may be worn, needs replacing, most clubs always have some expert or very knowledgeable person there who can assist, usually the information and assistance comes free, buy them a beer, also once per year, change the firing pin, and extractor.
        quote]

        A firing pin and extractor will last many many years, and tens of thousands of rounds. Dont wast your time and money swapping parts for the sake of swapping them. get them tuned, and if you are a quamby, take it to a smith for a check over.
        Sorry and I don't wish to be argumentative, a very popular handgun, made by Tanfoglio, RECOMEND that the owner change the extractor every 5000 rounds, I was totally surprised by the recommendation, I don't own one of their guns BUT that what they recommend. PLEASE note when I suggest that the firing pin and extractor are replaced ever year it is a GIVEN you shoot as much as I do and many others, 5000-10000 rounds per year. In my STI I changed the extractor in ten years twice, and the firing pin once, THEY are cheap, it won't hurt to have a CHANGE time, and that time is not at a MAJOR match. Like changing the battery on your Cmore, you can after the major match always use the old one til it dies. PS, always have a spare extractor and firing pin and Slide stop in your range bag.

    • #4
      Originally posted by susanwest" post=43649
      Over the past six months or so I have become aware that on match-day MANY shooters have issues, round did not fire, extractor problems, cycling issues and even handgun aimed will not hit target, several times also no powder in case, fired, NOT good a outcome, squib round.
      I make no claims as to being an expert on the subject, however for shooters and many are new or less than 1-2 years of shooting, or old time shooter, NEW time re-loader.

      There are cases were the shooter loads his own ammunition, using wrong powders, in untried and high amounts, causing a dangerous pressure build up in the chamber of the pistol. Each shooting discipline has its own powders, projectiles and loads, major or minor. When loading why have more recoil than needed to make the power factor.
      The best idea when reloading is to consult the powder manufacturers loading instructions, ADI produces a hard copy from dealers and an online copy for all. Easy to find on Google. The manufacturer KNOWS what powder is BEST suited for achieving what P/F. Never exceed their loading instructions or use what you think is a powder that sounds great, or your friend use it, when in doubt ask a person at your club who is an expert, there are many all over the place. they can advise you. I am also aware that Winchester Powder has a hard copy and possibly online details, I support our local brand ADI only.

      Primers come in hard and soft, for revolvers I never use anything else than FEDERAL< small pistol, also they have small rifle for major loads, CCI are good, Winchester I use sometimes, and Fiocchi and there are others. I use Federal first or CCI, never a problem. Some people don't like Federal, there are others.
      When seating the primer MAKE sure the primer is just lower than the base of the case, so it sits absolutely flat on glass and remains still if shaken slightly.
      FOR matches ensure the primer is correctly seated, look twice, then for a match barrel drop each round you intend to use, disassemble the semi first and use the barrel only, with revolver drop the round in the chamber and NEVER close the cylinder. This is something good shooters do all the time, match or practice, a good habit to have. Be safe, no rounds left over after you finish barrel dropping. Also a perfect time to examine the case for cracks and other issues, have MATCH grade cases for the few matches that count, and then junk rounds, I have reloaded them in 9mm .38 super, .357sig, .38 special used over 30 times, all perfect. Matches get the newer rounds.

      So, when shooting a match and the round fails to fire, WHY, in a semi is the gun in battery, slide fully closed? the round may have a bulge, the primer was not seated properly, is the round has a bulge and the gun won't go into battery or it does it may be VERY difficult to rack, hence barrel drop all rounds.
      Squib round, primer only, when fired the projectile is 2 inches inside the barrel, YOU need to get this out with a rod, ASK.

      Cycling issues are when you use the wrong recoil spring, or have insufficient powder in your round to make the gun cycle correctly, or the round is the wrong length. Winchester loading manual has the correct overall lengths printed and there is other printed material on the web, or at your pistol club.

      Sometimes also your extractor may be worn, needs replacing, most clubs always have some expert or very knowledgeable person there who can assist, usually the information and assistance comes free, buy them a beer, also once per year, change the firing pin, and extractor, and at this time minutely examine your total gun disassembled, magnifying glass in hand. I am aware a friend once found a hairline crack, to much powder and needs a new slide. It does not hurt the gun to do this every time your clean it, and I KNOW you would clean it every time you use it.

      When you buy and receive your new toy, TAKE it to a range, AT 10 metres, sight is in, PERFECTLY, then do this at 15 metres then 25 and finally at 50 metres, prior going to a match sight the gun in again, it will save you a great deal of angst, then once you know it is sighted in, all rounds where barrel dropped, you loaded the rounds and checked VISUALLY that each round got the correct amount of powder, you can now relax and know the gun will work flawlessly, NO pressure, shoot well.

      When loading, and you know what amount of powder each case needs, check every 50-100 rounds, weigh the powder, good loading technique.
      Projectiles, good are Hawksbury river, Top score, Westcasting and a host of others, copper wash from Frontier and Berry are very popular, NEVER buy a round when you can save hundreds by reloading your own. Safe shooting. WHEN in doubt ASK someone who knows what is correct, don't ever guess.
      In reality most dont care, and wont check their gun, ammo and sights, even with good advice to do so. If failures occur etc, they have the perfect excuse:
      I never practiced
      Sights are out
      scales are out
      dies are out
      press payed up
      Couldnt get right (powder, primer, projie, case etc)
      And so it goes on, ad finitum....

      Comment


      • #5
        I have no problem with plinkers. i am probably one of them.

        I also enjoy reloading my own ammo. Sure, I've make some classic blunders but I learn and move on.

        Anyone who wants to judge me for being an ordinary marksman or numby reloader is welcome. It don't bug me one bit.

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        • Guest's Avatar
          Guest commented
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          Originally posted by Stan 66" post=43803
          I have no problem with plinkers. i am probably one of them.

          I also enjoy reloading my own ammo. Sure, I've make some classic blunders but I learn and move on.

          Anyone who wants to judge me for being an ordinary marksman or numby reloader is welcome. It don't bug me one bit.
          That was not the intention of the person whom posted this topic, she was only attempting in a way to highlight some important aspect of pistol shooting, and in no way was it to cast aspersions on anyone. I am also way past my useby date, and now can still teach what I have learned over so many years, and I do have a following of sorts. Reloading is fun and has its merits, but much needs to be shown to those young who think they know all, as once we did, and those that follow will also learn what they have yet to understand.

      • #6
        Originally posted by susanwest" post=43649
        There are cases were the shooter loads his own ammunition, using wrong powders, in untried and high amounts, causing a dangerous pressure build up in the chamber of the pistol. Each shooting discipline has its own powders, projectiles and loads, major or minor. When loading why have more recoil than needed to make the power factor.
        The best idea when reloading is to consult the powder manufacturers loading instructions, ADI produces a hard copy from dealers and an online copy for all. Easy to find on Google. The manufacturer KNOWS what powder is BEST suited for achieving what P/F. Never exceed their loading instructions or use what you think is a powder that sounds great, or your friend use it, when in doubt ask a person at your club who is an expert, there are many all over the place. they can advise you. I am also aware that Winchester Powder has a hard copy and possibly online details, I support our local brand ADI only.
        Speaking as someone fairly new, none of this is true. The ADI data was useless and even by going for the "Max loading" we got a round that barely made Minor PF.

        Telling someone new to "ask around" is not really helpful.

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        • Guest's Avatar
          Guest commented
          Editing a comment
          Originally posted by ~Coxy" post=44091
          Originally posted by susanwest" post=43649
          There are cases were the shooter loads his own ammunition, using wrong powders, in untried and high amounts, causing a dangerous pressure build up in the chamber of the pistol. Each shooting discipline has its own powders, projectiles and loads, major or minor. When loading why have more recoil than needed to make the power factor.
          The best idea when reloading is to consult the powder manufacturers loading instructions, ADI produces a hard copy from dealers and an online copy for all. Easy to find on Google. The manufacturer KNOWS what powder is BEST suited for achieving what P/F. Never exceed their loading instructions or use what you think is a powder that sounds great, or your friend use it, when in doubt ask a person at your club who is an expert, there are many all over the place. they can advise you. I am also aware that Winchester Powder has a hard copy and possibly online details, I support our local brand ADI only.
          Speaking as someone fairly new, none of this is true. The ADI data was useless and even by going for the "Max loading" we got a round that barely made Minor PF.

          Telling someone new to "ask around" is not really helpful.
          Sorry, ADI are covering their backsides with their loads, also what I wrote I standby. Sorry if you found the information useless.
          Please give me one example where the MAX load barely made minor PF?
          I did not say to ask around I hope I said ask someone at your club that loads often and for many years, an experienced person, to make 125 PF is not that difficult, there are heaps of posts on this site that will give you the perfect specifications.
          ADI in their printed booklet give the shooter a range, the information is useable and correct, HOWEVER all firearms vary to some degree that is why we use a chronograph, what works in one pistol on one hot day will not work on one cold day in another.

      • #7
        "125 GR. CAST LCN AP50N 0.355" 1.114" 2.5 835 19500 psi 3.2 1000 32500 psi"

        3.2 grains is nowhere near enough, this is in a perfectly average TF Stock III and a CZ Shadow.

        So yes, I searched around at the time and found reports from other users on the old shooting forums to use more.

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          Guest commented
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          Originally posted by ~Coxy" post=44509
          "125 GR. CAST LCN AP50N 0.355" 1.114" 2.5 835 19500 psi 3.2 1000 32500 psi"

          3.2 grains is nowhere near enough, this is in a perfectly average TF Stock III and a CZ Shadow.

          So yes, I searched around at the time and found reports from other users on the old shooting forums to use more.
          Sorry Coxy,
          Susan says your wrong......

        • Guest's Avatar
          Guest commented
          Editing a comment
          Originally posted by ~Coxy" post=44509
          "125 GR. CAST LCN AP50N 0.355" 1.114" 2.5 835 19500 psi 3.2 1000 32500 psi"

          3.2 grains is nowhere near enough, this is in a perfectly average TF Stock III and a CZ Shadow.

          So yes, I searched around at the time and found reports from other users on the old shooting forums to use more.
          Thank you for the advise that 3.2 grns AP50 using a 125 conical will not make minor power factor, all I did as mentioned was to upload the ADI data, my mistake and I'm sorry that ADI is incorrect with their data, POSSIBLY, most shooters from what I hear and what I use in my SP01 is 3.6 grns AP50 * 125 con.

          125 GR. LCN AP70N 0.356" 1.125" 3.8 993 24400 cup 4.3 1096 31300 cup
          125 GR. CAST LCN AP50N 0.355" 1.114" 2.5 835 19500 psi 3.2 1000 32500 psi
          125 GR. CAST LCN AP100 0.355" 1.114" 5.0 890 17300 psi 6.2 1135 33500 psi

          The above data is, subject to testing correct for the AP70, and I use 4.1 grns * 125 to make minor in my CZ.
          I am aware from a conversation with a club member that he uses 6.1 grns AP100 *125 by small RIFLE primer to make minor.
          GUESS I will have to approach AD and point out to them the error of their ways and ask them to make the alteration, I guess to defend ADI they looked at the 32500 psi and thought this was about it, I notice AS you would that their projectile WAS travelling at 1000 fps, and * 125 would just make it. THAT was the telling factor, sorry I mislead you and I won't do that again.

        • Robar
          Robar commented
          Editing a comment
          Susan, PM sent .
          Originally posted by ~Coxy" post=44509
          "125 GR. CAST LCN AP50N 0.355" 1.114" 2.5 835 19500 psi 3.2 1000 32500 psi"

          3.2 grains is nowhere near enough, this is in a perfectly average TF Stock III and a CZ Shadow.

          So yes, I searched around at the time and found reports from other users on the old shooting forums to use more.

      • #8
        3.2 grns of AP 50 behind a 125gr pill will not make minor let alone cycle the action on a standard 9mm.

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          Originally posted by Robar" post=44533
          3.2 grns of AP 50 behind a 125gr pill will not make minor let alone cycle the action on a standard 9mm.
          Sorry and thank you for that information, all I was doing was using the ADI information I downloaded, at no time did I ever say it would. Thanks friend.

          125 GR. LCN AP70N 0.356" 1.125" 3.8 993 24400 cup 4.3 1096 31300 cup
          125 GR. CAST LCN AP50N 0.355" 1.114" 2.5 835 19500 psi 3.2 1000 32500 psi
          125 GR. CAST LCN AP100 0.355" 1.114" 5.0 890 17300 psi 6.2 1135 33500 psi

        • Guest's Avatar
          Guest commented
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          Originally posted by Robar" post=44533
          3.2 grns of AP 50 behind a 125gr pill will not make minor let alone cycle the action on a standard 9mm.
          Yep 100%

          3.2 was my starting load, check my XDm 5.25 thread, even with a seating depth of 1.105" my Springfield would only just cycle.

          I'm now running 3.6gr AP50 with a seating depth of 1.105" and Hawkesbury River RN 125gr CopperHawkes and it works a treat.

      • #9
        I hear you Tezza. You just can't help some people :P

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