No RPL - WTF!

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  • No RPL - WTF!

    So I decided that in addition to my rifle license I would make end roads into acquiring my pistol license. I truly enjoy the marksmanship and disciple that's involved in utilizing such a short barreled firearm. I am a current member of the ADF (7 years), a range safety supervisor, and in addition to being qualled in a number of weapon systems the most relevant here (9mm) would be the Browning SLP, Glock (of which I am an advanced operator) and MP5. A Browning was glued to my thigh for 7 months in the meao.
    After speaking to the lady at St. Marys pistol club I was absolutely gutted to learn that not one of my military qualifications would be recognised and that i would need to undergo the entire 'training regimen' with a probability in finally being able to acquire a pistol in 12-16 months
    *Lessons with a .22 from god knows who,
    *$500 approx for lessons and club fee and I havent even bought a pistol yet,
    (edit) That!!
    I'll stick to the range on base, at least i dont have to pay for ammo
    I am all for gun control, but these laws are keeping the right people away also.

    end rant.

  • #2
    I hear ya mate

    Comment


    • kz7
      kz7 commented
      Editing a comment
      WTF indeed! But hey its for your own good (apparently)

  • #3
    Originally posted by Cannon" post=38131
    So I decided that in addition to my rifle license I would make end roads into acquiring my pistol license. I truly enjoy the marksmanship and disciple that's involved in utilizing such a short barreled firearm. I am a current member of the ADF (7 years), a range safety supervisor, and in addition to being qualled in a number of weapon systems the most relevant here (9mm) would be the Browning SLP, Glock (of which I am an advanced operator) and MP5. A Browning was glued to my thigh for 7 months in the meao.
    After speaking to the lady at St. Marys pistol club I was absolutely gutted to learn that not one of my military qualifications would be recognised and that i would need to undergo the entire 'training regimen' with a probability in finally being able to acquire a pistol in 12-16 months
    *Lessons with a .22 from god knows who,
    *$500 approx for lessons and club fee and I havent even bought a pistol yet,
    (edit) That!!
    I'll stick to the range on base, at least i dont have to pay for ammo
    I am all for gun control, but these laws are keeping the right people away also.

    end rant.
    Get a copy of your PMKeys quals, your PH233 (if they still exist) and contact other instructors. An RTO has a legal obligation to recognise RPL.

    Drop us a PM.

    Comment


    • Guest's Avatar
      Guest commented
      Editing a comment
      They've pretty much forced my hand into being that way bud.
      So disappointing.
      Its tools like this QLD raid
      that scare the public (and rightly so) and f' it for the rest of us.
      4.2 tonnes of ammo???

    • Guest's Avatar
      Guest commented
      Editing a comment
      Originally posted by Oddball" post=38157
      Originally posted by Cannon" post=38131
      So I decided that in addition to my rifle license I would make end roads into acquiring my pistol license. I truly enjoy the marksmanship and disciple that's involved in utilizing such a short barreled firearm. I am a current member of the ADF (7 years), a range safety supervisor, and in addition to being qualled in a number of weapon systems the most relevant here (9mm) would be the Browning SLP, Glock (of which I am an advanced operator) and MP5. A Browning was glued to my thigh for 7 months in the meao.
      After speaking to the lady at St. Marys pistol club I was absolutely gutted to learn that not one of my military qualifications would be recognised and that i would need to undergo the entire 'training regimen' with a probability in finally being able to acquire a pistol in 12-16 months
      *Lessons with a .22 from god knows who,
      *$500 approx for lessons and club fee and I havent even bought a pistol yet,
      (edit) That!!
      I'll stick to the range on base, at least i dont have to pay for ammo
      I am all for gun control, but these laws are keeping the right people away also.

      end rant.
      Get a copy of your PMKeys quals, your PH233 (if they still exist) and contact other instructors. An RTO has a legal obligation to recognise RPL.

      Drop us a PM.
      Done!

  • #4
    RPL [recognition of prior learning ] has been butt kicked in many places including enterprise bargaining and workplace training.
    Don`t feel alone -- it sucks big time --and the older and more experienced you are the more it sucks {and hurts } to see the way things are deteriorating at the hands of self appointed experts and bureaucracy et al:.
    Some times.... just some times its nice to be a bit older and more irrelevant and simply not care anymore about a system that well...... sucks
    [center]
    Don’t poke the snake, walk around it and come back later with a double-barrelled shotgun and blow its [email protected]#!ing head off!.

    Australia in future, the outcome is the same, a bloody dictatorship run on the whims of a very few ego-centric pathological elitists.

    Comment


    • MrCarbine
      MrCarbine commented
      Editing a comment
      I don't mean to be offensive but military training has nothing to do with civy use of firearms. I have come across a few military types that had to be retrained.
      The best response I had was from an ex SAS trooper: "I know my rules of engagement."
      I have no doubt that he did, however it has nothing to do with civy use of firearms.
      Bite the bullet and go through the process.

  • #5
    Before you rant further about the hideous training regimen offered by a lady at St Mary's, arm yourself with a little knowledge to ensure future rants are not half cocked, FTF or FTE

    Familiarise yourself with the legislation contained in both "the Act" and "the Regulations" which can be found at www.police.nsw.gov.au/services/firearms.

    You may well discover that the Act and the Regulations does not discriminate between lawmen, armymen, airmen, firemen, policemen or even women. Everyone is treated the same. Everyone applying for a category H licence in NSW must jump through the same hoops. Get used to it.

    I will ask you how often does the military recognise a civilian training program to grant you a competency if you haven't done a similar military style course? Will the military or yourself for that matter recognise my training as a Range Supervisor, Armourer and Instructor? In my experience it doesn't happen. And the lengths you have to go to, in order to have it recognised frequently aren't worth the expense.

    Remember the clubs don't grant you the licence the registry is responsible for that, and only if the correct legislated and regulated process has been adhered to by the club that you have joined.

    A pistol strapped to your thigh will only happen after further training in a particular discipline is completed, the further training is required usually for insurance purposes (think of the word insurance as another way of saying "arse covering") Given your military background you should have a very good first hand working knowledge of arse covering.

    As to the cost if you are already baulking at the price, then I have another surprise for its highly addictive and nothing is cheap.

    And lessons with a .22 from god knows who? Well let's just say that it most likely be someone who's has already been there and done that, someone understands the frustrations as well as the legislation intimately - someone who believe it or not you may even be able to swap war stories with.

    The more people who get involved with the sport the better. If each of us can influence or change one other persons perception of this sport then eventually we may see some change for the better. I say get involved, get amongst it and come and enjoy the best sport you can get (standing up with your clothes on )

    Cheers
    Harry
    As Napoleon said,"only thunderbolts can be preferred to cannon"

    Comment


    • #6
      MrCarbine all I can say is you actually don't have a clue what you are talking about.....

      All military training in firearms is safety based to the point of being way past anal.

      as for your ex sas trooper I call bullshit that he would say that to you...the only thing you would need to explain to an ex sas trooper is the difference between sporting prac pistol and their procedures/rules and the CQB course he went through...and as for rifles the same principles apply wether it is a bolt action or a semi auto rifle or M4 or Styer...

      Comment


      • #7
        Give SMPC a shot. The RO's are all good blokes (some ex mil) and I'm sure your prior experience will be suitably recognised (even if you have to jump through a few technical hoops).

        You can buy a pistol after completing 6 months of the PPL (so usually about 8-9 months in).

        I'll be there tomorrow to get 3 PTA's signed off, the safe needs filling!
        Good thing I sandbagged the [email protected]#k out of that match or I'd be B Grade in Classic now too................

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        • Guest's Avatar
          Guest commented
          Editing a comment
          Cheers lads, didnt mean to start a war between service and civi.
          Harry - as for going off 'half cocked', mate if you refuse to believe that the standard and level of instruction within the ADF is enough to warrant RPL, I believe you may have just earned the ire of every serviceman on these boards. They know how intense the level of weapons instruction is especially for combat musterings/corps/billets.
          RPL was granted when I went for my rifle license - didnt have to do the mandatory shoot. So why not pistol???
          You talk about learning legislation, safe specifications etc like its the most difficult component, it can be learned in an afternoon. Practical experience, speed/tac reloads, pairs/section fire and movement, transition drills etc etc takes years.
          But you think its right for us to start all over again, without an once of recognition? Is all I'm sayin.
          Surely you get that?
          MrCarbine - "military training has nothing to do with civy use of firearms"
          ??? a) I think you'll find the principles of marksmanship are universal, b) we train much the same way that you do - firing at inanimate pieces of board.
          I know its legislation, and there's bugger all I can do about it, but it doesnt make it right. Again, all I'm sayin.


          PS: Cheers for all the helpful pm's lads. I'll definitely be looking into SMPC and Blacktown, exMil +1

      • #8
        Yup stinks doesn't it..

        Even aviation has RPL for commercial pilots license from defence.. And that is the second most anal industry who have an obsession with safety.. After mining..

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        • Guest's Avatar
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          .

        • Guest's Avatar
          Guest commented
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          Taz ,

          Every group has bad apples, even SAS.

      • #9
        Mate we hear you. I punched a gun in the MEAO and a few other places. The Weapons licensing system is inbred and anal but that's the way our pollies wanted it.

        I am qualified for all infantry weapons systems and had 30 years of RPL to no avail. You will find that the people in the clubs understand the angst and should give you a quick passage through the bull shite.

        You earned your cred- the anal ones will be on the footpath on ANZAC day.

        Marsalama

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        • #10
          As has been mentioned already, in NSW ( and probably other states) the principal aim of the firearm licensing regime is not related firearms safety and/or competency.

          The real aim is deterrence. The FAR wants to make the process as long and tedious as possible precisely to encourage you to give up your dream of handgun target shooting and instead take up flower arranging, butterfly collecting or whatever.

          And it works. A high percentage of people who think target shooting might be a lot of fun just give up when faced with endless delays and a pile of forms to fill out. Then the FAR close as many ranges as possible to further deter the remaining diehards who stick it out through the BS licensing process.

          I was also shocked at the lack of RPL when I first became a civvie shooter. It really pissed me off. But I just swallowed a bit of pride, quietly did all the training, paid my fees, filled out the forms and waited, and waited. I determined that the BS politics of the NSW FAR was not going to get the best of me.

          Yes it takes time. Yes it's a pain in the butt. But I was never gonna let those bastards win.

          ]Stick with it , play the game ..... And win.[/B]

          Edit by Nf

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          • Guest's Avatar
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            Originally posted by Stan 66" post=38257
            I determined that the BS politics of the NSW FAR was not going to get the best of me. Yes it takes time. Yes it's a pain in the butt. But I was never gonna let those bastards win.

            Stick with it , play the game ..... And win.
            Yep, that's the attitude I took with both my longarms licence and now my pistol licence (just hit 6 months on my PPL so I can now go about jumping through more hoops and waiting periods to get my first handgun).

            I used to shoot prior to '96 however was overseas for a long time and when I came back I was shocked to find all the changes to the regime of firearms licencing and ownership. Their little plan to dissuade me from re-entering the sport by bombarding me with paperwork, training courses, cooling-off periods and the like actually did work for a few years however eventually I said to myself "F*@k it; the bastards aren't going to beat me". So I took a deep breath, did some research to find out exactly what was required of me to become licenced and spent some time looking around for the right club, and then went about methodically jumping through their hoops and filling out their reams of paperwork and got my licence; I now have a safe full of longarms (and hopefully a few pistols in there soon too) and am thoroughly enjoying being back hunting and shooting again, so in the end it was well worth al the bulls*#t.

        • #11
          The thing that shits me the most is that we currently have overly complicated and tedious firearms laws with many hoops that need to be jumped through...... So on top of that many clubs insert their own club rules that exacerbate this problem and end up putting many people off the sport entirely as it suddenly seems to arduous. This doesn't do our sport any favours as we end up remaining a minority. I understand that places want to cover themselves legally and avoid complete wankers that should never own anything more dangerous than a hairbrush from getting a licence.... but do they really need to make things that hard and boring?

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          • #12
            I think some have missed one of the points here.
            Yes, RPL is supposedly not being taken into account, and it should be.
            But, $500 ... you're kidding me?
            I paid $125, of which $95 goes to APA as capitation fees, then I was "trained" in the art of pistol and signed off for my first PTA at six months.
            Prior learning was considered...

            just sayin'.

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            • Guest's Avatar
              Guest commented
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              Originally posted by Crrrock" post=38290
              I think some have missed one of the points here.
              Yes, RPL is supposedly not being taken into account, and it should be.
              But, $500 ... you're kidding me?
              I paid $125, of which $95 goes to APA as capitation fees, then I was "trained" in the art of pistol and signed off for my first PTA at six months.
              Prior learning was considered...

              just sayin'.
              Yeah good point $500 just on club fees is a ripoff!

          • #13
            All great points on this page fellas, basically comes down to the bureaucracy killing our sport/passion.
            As for the money, thats what she told me, $130 approx to join the club and $350 approx for the course and admin.
            I know the clubs and instructors are bound by legislation but from what I've read in this thread and the pm's I've received its sounds as though once you've started the journey your own ability will determine 'time in training', which is very positive.
            I've just got to weigh up whether I'm going to be happy (and if it'll be worth it in the end) being confined to a range and putting holes through paper. At least with a long you can take it away, stretch its legs and use it to hunt. Christ I get bored after 20mins at Silverdale I wonder if they'll let me sling my .308 and run transition drills :P
            A lot to think about, appreciate the conversation and your thoughts too lads.

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            • Guest's Avatar
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              Originally posted by Cannon" post=38391
              All great points on this page fellas, basically comes down to the bureaucracy killing our sport/passion.
              As for the money, thats what she told me, $130 approx to join the club and $350 approx for the course and admin.
              I know the clubs and instructors are bound by legislation but from what I've read in this thread and the pm's I've received its sounds as though once you've started the journey your own ability will determine 'time in training', which is very positive.
              I've just got to weigh up whether I'm going to be happy (and if it'll be worth it in the end) being confined to a range and putting holes through paper. At least with a long you can take it away, stretch its legs and use it to hunt. Christ I get bored after 20mins at Silverdale I wonder if they'll let me sling my .308 and run transition drills :P
              A lot to think about, appreciate the conversation and your thoughts too lads.
              If you want to have more fun while Pistol shooting then find a club that shoots either IPSC or Steel Challenge. Those two disciplines are a lot more entertaining than some of the others (Notice I said more 'entertaining' not 'better' - all shooting is good )

            • Stan 66
              Move commented
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              Originally posted by Cannon" post=38391
              I've just got to weigh up whether I'm going to be happy (and if it'll be worth it in the end) being confined to a range and putting holes through paper. At least with a long you can take it away, stretch its legs and use it to hunt.
              For longarms that is correct. But as I am sure you know, handguns may be used for target shooting only, and only an official range. In NSW (and most other states) handgun hunting is specifically prohibited. The same goes for plinking or any other activity not conducted at an official, certified range.

            • Guest's Avatar
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              Originally posted by Cannon" post=38391
              ...At least with a long you can take it away, stretch its legs and use it to hunt. Christ I get bored after 20mins at Silverdale...
              Yeah, I'd give up shooting here & now if single-shot loading off a bench at Silverdale was my only option for longarms!

              Given your background, have you had a crack at Field Rifle and Service Rifle? Positional shooting, snaps & moving targets, differing ranges; pretty much everything you ADF boys do for a living and great fun (I shoot both disciplines out at Malabar).

          • #14
            Im far more 'Al Bundy' than I am thespian, but...

            Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200.

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            • #15
              ************************************************** ********

              Harry, that's really deep mate.

              Your a passionate man for the sport and your club.



              Thanks...


              ************************************************** ********

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