hatsan at44-10

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  • hatsan at44-10

    hi guys i've recently got my hands on an at44-10 in .22 and i gotta say I LOVE IT!!! only one problem she punches holes clean through roofing iron at 25 meters... so the reason for this post? I'm trying to bring the power down to below shed annihilation so i can shoot rats with it.
    i've just discovered if i remove the power adjustment screw and leave the washer in place i can get 6 mm less preload on the spring also if i swap the washer for one thats 1mm thick i will get an extra 3mm less on top. so is this a bad idea or should it work?
    Here piggy piggy... boom!

  • #2
    Hi Brookesy,

    Your rifle reportedly puts out around 30fpe for a 0.22 cal. That's putting out a far bit of umph. To bring the power down to a light springer (6-8 fpe) sorta defeats the purpose of having the PCP. The Poms de-tune PCP's to less than 12 fpe but even that will punch holes in roofing iron.

    I'm sure Matt will add value to your quest. Good luck.
    Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see.

    Comment


    • brookesy
      brookesy commented
      Editing a comment
      Its certainly not a permanent thing I like the power where it is but my last break barrel was .177 at 16 fpe and was good for the rats (just not accurate) just not destroying the shed would be good plus I get about 45 shots off a 200 bar fill doen to 100 bar I was hoping a reduction of half the power would double the shot count

  • #3
    Hi.....

    I hope that you are able to detune the rifle somewhat, but I think its just not the rifle for the job. Its just too powerful. I would like to suggest something just a little radical. Why not buy a new air rifle for just rats and birds in the shed?

    I think something inexpensive would do the job and I would like to suggest something like a Stoeger 5 or a Webley Rebel ( I suggest these are they are very inexpensive at the moment;, both well under $150). Rats and pigeons in a shed will easily be despatched by these.

    Save the 44/10 for when your out in the paddock and can use its power to your advantage.

    I see rifles like tools in a box, use the ones you have for the jobs they do the best.

    Paul

    Comment


    • brookesy
      brookesy commented
      Editing a comment
      I have had a rebel before and its what made me buy a pcp... I agree with your comments but the great thing about a pcp is it is both a low power and high power in one you just have to restrict air supply and shes a low power shooter... e.g the uk 12 fpe version is the "same" gun just less hammer strike, valve openings, thinner transfer port and I believe a thicker valve needle, I could buy another gun and in any other country I would but until aus stops stops being the anti's little bitch and derestricts air rifles this is the one for both pidgeons in the paddock and the shed

  • #4
    Hi brookesy - It sounds like you`ve already got the gist of how a PCP works to me - plus you`re definitely on the right track knowing that the two most-basic-rules of power output are mainly governed by hammer-strike and air-flow - Of these two factors you will usually find that adjusting the latter is the most preferable way to go

    Unfortunately though unless Hatsan has built an air-adjuster-screw into the AT44 (which I believe they have not ) you will have to remove the OEM Port and get a smaller diametre one made up - Obviously this should only be attempted by someone whom is confident and competent with what they are doing ( )

    The good news is that once the rifle`s been stripped and the air port removed any good lathe-operator should be able to knock you up a new one if they`ve got the old one to copy - As a matter of fact our Matt on here copied my FAC Raider port to produce 12FPE ports for the boys up in Queensland Which I believe were OEM 5mm port = 20FPE and 3mm port = 12FPE.

    You may even want to start at a 50% reduction - that way you can always ream out the hole in 0.2 or 0.5mm increments if you want to increase it (does`nt work the other way round though of course :P

    I`ll even take a brave stab at it myself and say that if the current port is knocking out 30FPE a reduction of around 40% in the hole diametre should give you about 15FPE at the muzzle if that`s what you want

    BTW the Webley Raider shares a great deal of similarities with the AT44 and so this topic here may help you out a bit too....http://shootingaustralia.net/forum/air-rifles/222-webley-raider-10-workshop
    "For it is the doom of men that they forget"

    Comment


    • mattw975
      mattw975 commented
      Editing a comment
      As Druid said

      Originally posted by Druid 66" post=46809
      Hi brookesy - It sounds like you`ve already got the gist of how a PCP works to me - plus you`re definitely on the right track knowing that the two most-basic-rules of power output are mainly governed by hammer-strike and air-flow - Of these two factors you will usually find that adjusting the latter is the most preferable way to go

      Unfortunately though unless Hatsan has built an air-adjuster-screw into the AT44 (which I believe they have not ) you will have to remove the OEM Port and get a smaller diametre one made up - Obviously this should only be attempted by someone whom is confident and competent with what they are doing ( )

      The good news is that once the rifle`s been stripped and the air port removed any good lathe-operator should be able to knock you up a new one if they`ve got the old one to copy - As a matter of fact our Matt on here copied my FAC Raider port to produce 12FPE ports for the boys up in Queensland Which I believe were OEM 5mm port = 20FPE and 3mm port = 12FPE.

      You may even want to start at a 50% reduction - that way you can always ream out the hole in 0.2 or 0.5mm increments if you want to increase it (does`nt work the other way round though of course :P

      I`ll even take a brave stab at it myself and say that if the current port is knocking out 30FPE a reduction of around 40% in the hole diametre should give you about 15FPE at the muzzle if that`s what you want

      BTW the Webley Raider shares a great deal of similarities with the AT44 and so this topic here may help you out a bit too....http://shootingaustralia.net/forum/air-rifles/222-webley-raider-10-workshop

    • brookesy
      brookesy commented
      Editing a comment
      I assume by port you mean tansfer port? And as I understand it the raider 10 is an at44-10 just in different dress... stripping down the rifle is no problem for me just getting a spring, valve needle and transfer port would be the issue. I think the place to start is the spring and transfer port... if anybody is able to knock up parts I'm more than happy to pay...

  • #5
    Originally posted by Uncakikki" post=46846
    Brooksey, 3.2mm is the uk spec transfer port diameter. Change that and remove 1 of the preload washers from the hammer spring and I think you will get the result you are after . If you back the hammer spring tension off too far then you will find your lock time will become very slow which is not conducive to accurate shooting. I've been messing around with my bt65 recently, fitted a regulator and made some other adjustments and the shot count has more than doubled and accuracy is as good as it ever was, and it is a whole hell of a lot quieter . Incidentally, your at44 would have been producing closer to 40 fpe in standard guise, my bt65 was producing 43fpe and my wife's at44 was at 41fpe when we first got them. At those energy levels iron sheeting doesn't stand a chance .
    Hey Chris what`s the story with the reg on your Hatsan - I`m determined to regulate the Raider in the new year and I`m guessing that the easiest way to do it is to buy an AT one and maybe get it machined in some way to fit - What do think?!
    "For it is the doom of men that they forget"

    Comment


    • brookesy
      brookesy commented
      Editing a comment
      Sorry druid no idea on the reg (none one the hatsan) just the valve but they do make them to suit I believe...

    • Guest's Avatar
      Guest commented
      Editing a comment
      Originally posted by Druid 66" post=47079
      Originally posted by Uncakikki" post=46846
      Brooksey, 3.2mm is the uk spec transfer port diameter. Change that and remove 1 of the preload washers from the hammer spring and I think you will get the result you are after . If you back the hammer spring tension off too far then you will find your lock time will become very slow which is not conducive to accurate shooting. I've been messing around with my bt65 recently, fitted a regulator and made some other adjustments and the shot count has more than doubled and accuracy is as good as it ever was, and it is a whole hell of a lot quieter . Incidentally, your at44 would have been producing closer to 40 fpe in standard guise, my bt65 was producing 43fpe and my wife's at44 was at 41fpe when we first got them. At those energy levels iron sheeting doesn't stand a chance .
      Hey Chris what`s the story with the reg on your Hatsan - I`m determined to regulate the Raider in the new year and I`m guessing that the easiest way to do it is to buy an AT one and maybe get it machined in some way to fit - What do think?!
      Hey Druid I've been meaning to tell you that we found one of the Altaros units that fits the Webley air tube with a bit if a polish. I haven't got one as yet but one of the other boys in the club has one and it is working a treat. I'll have to check with Glenn which one it is and let you know.

  • #6
    Dodging the rain and wind today, I managed to get my AT 44-10 out for some shots.
    Here it is at the back with it's little cousin the raider in front.

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    The following groups were shot with FTT's 5.55 at about 80 bar. Best pressure for these lighter pellets I discovered.
    Only using FTT because I unprofessionally ran out of jsb heavys. Got some more coming.

    25 m

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    30m

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    40m

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    Not perfect but it's a start, Matt's air stripper helped in tightening the groups.

    Off to lower the number of starlings tomorrow at my mates farm then back to the targets when the jsbs arrive. Hopefully it's calm and sunny.

    Cheers all

    Chewy.

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    • Guest's Avatar
      Guest commented
      Editing a comment
      They are respectable groups mate!

      You are clearly not in Victoria with rain and wind. :lol:

  • #7
    Far north Qld at the start of the wet season mate. Feeling for you guys down there!! Know your pain.

    Comment


    • Guest's Avatar
      Guest commented
      Editing a comment
      Yep it's been a crazy week weather wise down here,
      supposed to be a cool change coming tonight...

  • #8
    Bottle brush de-pinger install. Thanks Druid for the run-down.

    Remove air reservoir very easy on the AT 44.

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    Depressurise air reservoir with supplied tool

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    Remove end of reservoir

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    Install brush, leaving steel shaft or something to grasp with needle nose pliers for removal at a later date. This will be happening as a pressure reg in going in later on.

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    Apply silicone grease to o-rings and reverse dis-assembly.

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    Works a treat!!!!!

    Cheers all

    Chewy.

    Comment


    • #9
      Took the AT out for a shoot this morning. Condition were perfect, shot some good groups and some average ones. The consistency just isn't there, also the shot count is a bit low. This arvo I removed the barrel band closest to the action and floated the barrel in the front one.

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      I will have to wait until next weekend now test out the result.

      After reading back through this thread and some stuff on the gateway forum, I have decided it is new transfer port time. After I get the pressure range sorted with the new port, it will be Altaros regulator time.
      Man, I am really enjoying working on this PCP just as I did on the raider.

      Cheers all
      Chewy

      Comment


      • #10
        Hi all, I have a question for your collective genius, I also put this here to keep the AT44 stuff together for other users.

        Is the striker pressure to high on my AT44????

        After I installed the de-pinger and put the reservoir back in the rifle, the reservoir would not take air pressure until I removed it from the rifle. With the tank ( easier to type ) in the rifle after about 20 pumps no rise in pressure, can push valve by hand. 20 pumps in tank out of rifle, pressure in tank just below 50 bar, no way to push valve by hand.

        Same again today after shooting the rifle dry testing a new double shot tray, after the last shot, tank let go last of air in tank in one big hit and then same re-filling dramas.

        Even tried today putting in 50 bar then putting tank back on rifle and filled to 150 bar no dramas.

        Any thoughts guys???

        Cheers
        Chewy.

        Comment


        • brookesy
          brookesy commented
          Editing a comment
          Hi chewdog... may seem simple but did you put your hammer stop screw back in?

      • #11
        I'm not aware I might have even taken it out.
        I haven't had the action apart yet, just took it off the stock and removed the reservoir to do what I've done so far.

        Chewy

        Comment


        • Guest's Avatar
          Guest commented
          Editing a comment
          Chewy, was your res empty or very low on pressure? It's common for PCPs to discharge all there air when the pressure I the tank falls below that which can hold the valve closed against the hammer spring pre load. The simple solution mate is to cock the rifle before you charge the gun that way the hammer is not resting against the outlet valve holding it open.

      • #12
        Bingo !!! Thanks mate, that sounds like the perfect solution. I just don't remember ever having this prob with my raider.

        Could there be an advantage to backing the hammer tension off a bit???

        Thanks again.
        Chewy.

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        • Guest's Avatar
          Guest commented
          Editing a comment
          Originally posted by Chewdog" post=60563
          Bingo !!! Thanks mate, that sounds like the perfect solution. I just don't remember ever having this prob with my raider.

          Could there be an advantage to backing the hammer tension off a bit???

          Thanks again.
          Chewy.
          Several in fact but not so as to be a solution to your problem. Backing the hammer spring tension off will, decrease velocity, increase shot count and most likely lower the res pressure at which this same problem may or may not occur. It will also, increase lock time (although in most hunting guns you'll hardly notice it, if at all), change the shape of your shot curve and possibly make the gun a bit quieter (it did mine ). You won't get the same problem with the raider because of the way the action is set up

      • #13
        Cocking the action will be the solution to my fill problem definitely. Thanks for that one.
        I will see how the new transfer port I've got coming affects the rifles accuracy, shot count and loudness. If I don't get the results I'm after then I might play with the hammer tension as well.

        Cheers for the info mate.

        Chewy.

        Comment


        • Dingo745
          Dingo745 commented
          Editing a comment
          Dumb question time. So what does the depinger mod achieve ?
          Reason I ask is I have an AT44-10 on order, and I'm looking for all the usual must have mods.
          I like to tinker and I'm looking forward to learning all about these PCP's.
          I have a lathe so I will be knocking out a few Transfer Ports to try, might have to get some number drills for different sizes.

      • #14
        De-Pingers simply get rid of a daft-sounding-ping (more of a `pung` really) within the rifle - This sound is actually an echo caused by a sound-wave bouncing it`s way down the air-cylinder - The echo was originally caused by the hammer striking the exhaust-valve

        The good news is it only actually happens with a few models of PCPs (ALWAYS ones with integrated `slim-line` air-cylinders) and they are usually the ones nearer the budget-end of the market (The Benjamin Marauder is in-famous for doing it )

        The other good news is you can rid any rifle of this daft and embarrassing sound by simply disrupting the path of the sound-wave - Methods often employed include: Professionally made bushes - Pieces of plastic pipe - Ball point pen and rubber washer parts or even just sticking a small bottle-cleaning-brush up it`s spout
        "For it is the doom of men that they forget"

        Comment


        • #15
          Got the transfer port V Matt turned up for me in the post yesterday , installed it this arvo.
          The rifle is nearly identical to the internals of the Webley Raider.

          Please make sure your rifle is unloaded and not cocked before starting this process !!!!
          You can remove the reservoir if the HPA makes you uneasy, I find the reservoir on helps me hold the action steady when working on the rifle.

          Spread out a drop sheet on your work surface to catch any bits you drop. Remove scope from the rifle.
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          Remove the 4 screws that secure the action to the stock, and remove the action. My AT44 only has 3 screws as I removed one barrel band when floating the barrel previously. Also remove any muzzle attachments and barrel bands in preparation of separating the action.
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          Place the magazine pin in the open position and cock the rifle, but do not close the bolt to allow access to the screw shown in the photo. Remove this screw. Please face rifle in a safe direction and ensure safety is on during this step.
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          De-cock the rifle by putting the safety in the off position, return the bolt to the closed position slowly while putting pressure on the trigger at the same time until bolt is closed. Rifle is now de-cocked.
          This allows access to the rear action screw shown below.
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          Remove the rear action screw while holding the upper and lower action together, use a zip tie if you feel like you are running out of hands. Turn the action on its side and separate 2 parts by rolling apart.
          This is where your drop sheet will pay off.
          If parts have sprung out, see their location in the photo below. Also the transfer port is located to the fore of the action and is made of brass with o-rings top and bottom. Remove port and replace making sure port and o-rings are seated straight in the hole.
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          The left is the factory port and the right is the 3mm V Matt transfer port.
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          Reassemble the rifle in the reverse order making sure of transfer port o-ring seating when joining the 2 parts of the action back together.

          Please remember the safety and to face the rifle in a safe direction during reassembly.

          Hammer spring tension to follow

          Chewy.

          Comment


          • Dingo745
            Dingo745 commented
            Editing a comment
            Nice write up Chewy.
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