Tuning - lube advice

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Tuning - lube advice

    Hi all,

    About to have a crack at tuning my HW80, but I'm wondering what grease or oil to buy: I've been using Lannox on the outside and in the compression chamber, but haven't opened anything up yet.

    I know that mixing lubricants isn't always the best idea, so I didn't want to get a molly grease for the spring, cocking shoe and trigger sears, and then have things gumming up with a different piston seal and cylinder lube, or whatever gets sprayed into the compression chamber.

    I've seen Nigel I think use Castrol LMM and Motul C2, and Matt says he uses a Lithium grease with PTFE (not sure if that's all he uses for the whole gun, piston and spring etc).

    Is there a combination that doesn't react, keep things things slick and fast, and won't break the bank? What do you guys use for the piston, and for the spring?

    Another question I have, everything I read says use a spring compressor taking this thing apart; what do you guys recommend for a brand new HW80? I saw Druid was using a quick-grip clamp for something when tinkering with his new HW97 (what calibre was it again? ) should I just use one of those, or buy and cut up a 8" C clamp to jury rig into something...?

    Thanks for your help, I look forward to documenting the process and keeping you all posted.

  • #2
    Never use anything directly in the compression chamber other than the thinnest smear on the piston seal or else you'll diesel.

    With a decent fitting Delrin top hat & spring guide you need very little grease in a springer (a two finger, small dollop will do). Lots of grease + ambient temperature changes = more or less viscosity = variable performance.

    Yep I use the Red Lithium with PTFE on all AR innards I tune personally


    Originally posted by Tunblor" post=42618
    Hi all,

    About to have a crack at tuning my HW80, but I'm wondering what grease or oil to buy: I've been using Lannox on the outside and in the compression chamber, but haven't opened anything up yet.

    I know that mixing lubricants isn't always the best idea, so I didn't want to get a molly grease for the spring, cocking shoe and trigger sears, and then have things gumming up with a different piston seal and cylinder lube, or whatever gets sprayed into the compression chamber.

    I've seen Nigel I think use Castrol LMM and Motul C2, and Matt says he uses a Lithium grease with PTFE (not sure if that's all he uses for the whole gun, piston and spring etc).

    Is there a combination that doesn't react, keep things things slick and fast, and won't break the bank? What do you guys use for the piston, and for the spring?

    Another question I have, everything I read says use a spring compressor taking this thing apart; what do you guys recommend for a brand new HW80? I saw Druid was using a quick-grip clamp for something when tinkering with his new HW97 (what calibre was it again? ) should I just use one of those, or buy and cut up a 8" C clamp to jury rig into something...?

    Thanks for your help, I look forward to documenting the process and keeping you all posted.

    Comment


    • #3
      and the best place for your Top Hot and other gear is Matt.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi,
        I used a sash clamp for a spring compressor on my R7 so I would recommend using something, see what Nigel comes back with as he has the same gun.
        Enjoy

        Comment


        • Guest's Avatar
          Guest commented
          Editing a comment
          Whereabouts are you located?

          For the 80 I'd advise the use of a compressor.
          I use a sash clamp. I've got a couple of blocks of wood with holes drilled in them that the cylinder and breech block sit into to stop them sliding off.

          Lube - I like something with moly in it.
          That Motul stuff is a chain lube that provides a very sticky base for the spring.
          Steve Pope from V-Mach supplies his springs with a sticky coating to which you apply the grease.

          For the compression chamber you wipe it on and almost wipe it off.
          The piston seal gets a light wipe.
          The 80 is prone to galling the back of the piston at the top - be a bit more generous here.
          I've been using a spray on Moly coating called Molybond and it seems to really help prevent wear in this area.
          I polish the piston and then coat the whole thing.
          no

          No oils of any sort near the compression chamber or piston - it'll diesel.
          Bit of oil in the trigger is about the only place to use it.

          Ask questions, post pics, we'll try to help.

      • #5
        Originally posted by Tunblor" post=42618
        Hi all,

        About to have a crack at tuning my HW80, but I'm wondering what grease or oil to buy: I've been using Lannox on the outside and in the compression chamber, but haven't opened anything up yet.

        I know that mixing lubricants isn't always the best idea, so I didn't want to get a molly grease for the spring, cocking shoe and trigger sears, and then have things gumming up with a different piston seal and cylinder lube, or whatever gets sprayed into the compression chamber.

        I've seen Nigel I think use Castrol LMM and Motul C2, and Matt says he uses a Lithium grease with PTFE (not sure if that's all he uses for the whole gun, piston and spring etc).

        Is there a combination that doesn't react, keep things things slick and fast, and won't break the bank? What do you guys use for the piston, and for the spring?

        Another question I have, everything I read says use a spring compressor taking this thing apart; what do you guys recommend for a brand new HW80? I saw Druid was using a quick-grip clamp for something when tinkering with his new HW97 (what calibre was it again? ) should I just use one of those, or buy and cut up a 8" C clamp to jury rig into something...?

        Thanks for your help, I look forward to documenting the process and keeping you all posted.
        Much the same advice from me too - Best to SPARINGLY use a Moly-Cote grease on main-spring and trigger-sear and only ONE-or-TWO drops of Silicon-Oil on the cylinder and piston - After that soak a small-clean-cloth in Silicon-Oil and wipe the action off with that - I always keep a couple of these `Wipe-Down-Cloths` sealed in those little plastic snap-close food bags - One I keep handy on top of my gun cabinet and another in my ammo/maintenance-box

        The quick-grip clamp works okay but I`m always very careful with it - Plus I always wear work-gloves when using it - A proper spring-compressor would be better though.

        BTW Just for the record my .20Cal Weihrauch is actually a 77 and therefore much better than a common-as-muck 97 :P

        Oooh - And it`s got a laminate stock too
        "For it is the doom of men that they forget"

        Comment


        • grmkc
          grmkc commented
          Editing a comment
          Fair shake of the sauce bottle Druid. I don't think my laminated blue HW97K in 0.177 is "common as muck" at all. far from it. I reckon about as common as your 77.

          Addendum: Hang on......the memory cells are churning. Now I remember! There's a HW77 around the place with a "common as muck" power plant in it somewhere in this great land of Oz.

          Be careful with that big spring in the 80 mate. I'm happy to do the HW50, 95 & 97's by without a spring compressor but you've got a big sucker on your hands.

      • #6
        Thanks very much guys, I knew the brains trust would chime in with some great advice as always.

        I'm located near Picton in NSW.

        I'll knock together a spring compressing setup before I get to work, probably something with an 8 inch G clamp used like this: http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/index.php/topic,24920.0.html

        I also plan on getting a tuning kit from Matt, I've had a brief discussion over email already. I think I'll send out the spring your way, Matt, to have the parts made up, rather than sending you the measurements to work with or something. More of a sure thing that way. Not sure when I will get a chance to send it off your way, it might be after christmas. Either way, these should largely eliminate the need for a heavier coat of dampening grease on the spring (involving the Motul C2), correct?

        Since I'll be waiting for the tune kit to arrive to put it back together with final final choice in lubes, I'll probably take a while to decide on what I'll be using. What I'm thinking now (and I overthink things, always) Molly tends to shine with metal-metal lubrication, and since I'll have a delrin guide and top hat, I might end up using a Lithium/Teflon mix for everything, rather than having molly here, something else there. Plenty of too-ing and fro-ing yet to do here though, I feel.

        Molykote (Dow Corning) and Molybond were mentioned, but there are many different greases under those brands, what ones do you guys use? (I don't mind if they're trade secrets, feel free to tell me to piss up a rope, same for you Matt!)

        The compression chamber was never sprayed by me, the "Air-Rifle guy" at Safari Firearms has a penchant for 5 second bursts of Lannox whenever he gets a chance, and he got a couple with my gun.

        Thanks again for all your help guys, I'll make sure to take plenty of photos as I go to try and give something back.

        Comment


        • Guest's Avatar
          Guest commented
          Editing a comment
          Originally posted by Tunblor" post=43015
          Either way, these should largely eliminate the need for a heavier coat of dampening grease on the spring (involving the Motul C2), correct?

          Molykote (Dow Corning) and Molybond were mentioned, but there are many different greases under those brands, what ones do you guys use?

          The compression chamber was never sprayed by me, the "Air-Rifle guy" at Safari Firearms has a penchant for 5 second bursts of Lannox whenever he gets a chance, and he got a couple with my gun.
          You'll see in one of the tuning threads where I tried a spray on Lithium grease. It was far too light and something heavier was required even with Matt's tight fitting guide to quieten it down.

          The molybond I was referring to is a dry film lube rather than a grease. Really good on the outside of a 97s comp chamber so as not to attract dirt.
          Look for an engine assembly paste.

          As for the bloke in the shop - smack him in the teeth if he ever does that again.
          In fact don't let him near your gun.
          As far as I'm concerned he should be paying for a warranty strip down to clean that out.
          Good way to bugger the piston seal.

      • #7
        Reading this thread would suggest that regular maintenance of springer air rifles (at least modern ones) precludes any kind of lubrication of the piston seal. The lubrication carried out when new and at rebuild is sufficient.
        Being an older member of the forum I can remember my old Gecado air rifle in the early 60's had instructions to use a couple of drops of good gun oil into the compression chamber regularly. I believe that it may have had a leather washer and I think the lubrication was to keep the washer supple.
        I now own a fairly new Diana and there is nothing in the instructions about lubrication of the piston so I assume - DON'T.
        I'm very happy to accept the advice of those in the know on this forum, so is the foregoing correct?

        Comment


        • Guest's Avatar
          Guest commented
          Editing a comment
          Originally posted by Blackadder" post=89609
          Reading this thread would suggest that regular maintenance of springer air rifles (at least modern ones) precludes any kind of lubrication of the piston seal. The lubrication carried out when new and at rebuild is sufficient.
          Being an older member of the forum I can remember my old Gecado air rifle in the early 60's had instructions to use a couple of drops of good gun oil into the compression chamber regularly. I believe that it may have had a leather washer and I think the lubrication was to keep the washer supple.
          I now own a fairly new Diana and there is nothing in the instructions about lubrication of the piston so I assume - DON'T.
          I'm very happy to accept the advice of those in the know on this forum, so is the foregoing correct?
          Spot on.
          Leather seals need a little bit of lubrication.
          These days you can get a modern silicon oil that'll do the job without the associated dieseling.
          Modern plastic seals don't need to be oiled.

          If at some point it doesn't cock smoothly, that's the first indication that it needs a strip down and a relube.
          Many thousands of pellets later.
      Working...
      X