2206H in M96!

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  • 2206H in M96!

    Hi guys,

    I have had limited success using 2205 and 2207 in my Swedish Mauser, shooting 140 grain cast projectiles. I prefer to fill up as much of a case as i can (mainly to avoid a double charge). I am looking for a reduced load that will fill enough of the case to make a double charge almost impossible, i.e. comes up to the top or overflows!

    My reloading manual doesn't list it for 140 grain cast but, it is listed for a 140 grain jacketed projectile and Hodgdon write this

    H4895 is AR2206H made by ADI, I have confirmed this with ADI.

    "H4895 powder was chosen because it is the slowest burning propellant that ignites uniformly in reduced charges. For years H4895 has been the top choice of cast bullet shooters. For this type of shooting, loads are reduced even more than the hunting loads listed here. To create this type of target and plinking loads, we recommend our 60% rule with H4895: Refer
    to our latest reloading manual or the Reloading Data Center found on the website; take the maximum H4895 charge listed for any given cartridge and multiply it by 60%. The shooter can create a 1500 to 2100 f/s load, depending on the bullet weight shown. This works ONLY where H4895 is listed. DO NOT use H4895 in a cartridge where it has not been shown."

    As the maximum load listed for H4895 (AR2206H) is 36 grains; 60% is 22 grains, to avoid the possibility of a double charge 24 grains.

    What do you guys think?

    Is anyone using a load like that?

    Thanks

  • #2
    i'm using 2208 with good success in my m96 (6.5x55).
    good velocities, good case fill, and good accuracy.
    refer to ADI guide for loads with it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by andyjm79" post=46455
      Hi guys,

      I have had limited success using 2205 and 2207 in my Swedish Mauser, shooting 140 grain cast projectiles. I prefer to fill up as much of a case as i can (mainly to avoid a double charge). I am looking for a reduced load that will fill enough of the case to make a double charge almost impossible, i.e. comes up to the top or overflows!

      My reloading manual doesn't list it for 140 grain cast but, it is listed for a 140 grain jacketed projectile and Hodgdon write this

      H4895 is AR2206H made by ADI, I have confirmed this with ADI.

      "H4895 powder was chosen because it is the slowest burning propellant that ignites uniformly in reduced charges. For years H4895 has been the top choice of cast bullet shooters. For this type of shooting, loads are reduced even more than the hunting loads listed here. To create this type of target and plinking loads, we recommend our 60% rule with H4895: Refer
      to our latest reloading manual or the Reloading Data Center found on the website; take the maximum H4895 charge listed for any given cartridge and multiply it by 60%. The shooter can create a 1500 to 2100 f/s load, depending on the bullet weight shown. This works ONLY where H4895 is listed. DO NOT use H4895 in a cartridge where it has not been shown."

      As the maximum load listed for H4895 (AR2206H) is 36 grains; 60% is 22 grains, to avoid the possibility of a double charge 24 grains.

      What do you guys think?

      Is anyone using a load like that?
      As yet no. But I am using 2206H in my 9.3.x62 for full powered loads with standard weight 286 grain jacketed bullets and am planning to use it with cast bullets as well, for cheap practice fodder, I'll start casting as soon as the weather cools after February.

      Comment


      • andyjm79
        andyjm79 commented
        Editing a comment
        I have used Trail Boss for this cartridge (I only got around 3 MOA at 100 yards) and others with more success.

        I should have outlined at the beginning, I am looking to shoot this Swedish Mauser accurately out to 300 yards and I want to do it with cast (economics)!

        The requirements:

        1) Accurate (3 MOA) out to 300 yards.

        2) Almost impossible to double charge so 23 grains or more!

        3) Preferably minimal leading of the bore.

        4) Preferably without fillers, gas check separation has got me paranoid enough already!

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        Below is a 10 shot group, I shot this morning; disregard the 2 40 cal holes.

        This is what I getting out of the M96 at around 1900 fps, 140 grain, gas checked, number 2 alloy, using AR2207, OAL 3.025" without a filler! Looking at those ten shots,this load won't get me out to 200 accurately and I trying for 300.

        I have put around 300 shots down the barrel using various loads of Trail boss, AR2205 and AR2207; I have used these as they are suggested loads for cast in Lyman's reloading manual . I have also tried different OALs and mild through to hard crimps. That's why I asked about Ar2206H, generally from my experience more of a slower powder yields better results out at 300! I guess the 6.5X55 is a hard cartridge to load for cast. The 303 or 30-06 probably would have been a better choice.

        Any help appreciated.

    • #4
      Hi Andyjm79,
      I would think that a slower powder would be needed for that range as well. Also, I have found over the years that the longer the bearing surface on cast projectiles, and the more lube grooves the better the accuracy. This also equates to a heavier bullet. What shape projectile is your 140 grainer. The best accuracy I got with any shape was with the Loverin design.
      Regards
      Les

      Comment


      • #5
        Hi,
        Back again, Are you looking for 3moa or 3inch groups at 300 yds?
        3 moa is 3moa no matter what the range. 3 moa at 300 yds is a 9inch group. Stability is what will effect your group size at longer ranges. As the projectile slows it may become unstable and start to yaw. This will open up your groups.
        The only way to test this is to try at that distance.
        Les

        Comment


        • andyjm79
          andyjm79 commented
          Editing a comment
          Well I would like 6" groups (2 MOA) at 300 yards, but at this stage I would settle happily for 8-9"

          I am using a CBE mold, that casts .267" 147 grain with 16bhn alloy.

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          I am getting to the point where after another two range trips another 100 rounds and 10 more loads, it will be either:

          a) Suck up the expense of jacketed!
          b) Sell the rifle and use a 30 cal, they are easier to get cast working in!

      • #6
        Originally posted by andyjm79" post=46455

        H4895 is AR2206H made by ADI, I have confirmed this with ADI.

        "H4895 powder was chosen because it is the slowest burning propellant that ignites uniformly in reduced charges. For years H4895 has been the top choice of cast bullet shooters. For this type of shooting, loads are reduced even more than the hunting loads listed here. To create this type of target and plinking loads, we recommend our 60% rule with H4895: Refer
        to our latest reloading manual or the Reloading Data Center found on the website; take the maximum H4895 charge listed for any given cartridge and multiply it by 60%. The shooter can create a 1500 to 2100 f/s load, depending on the bullet weight shown. This works ONLY where H4895 is listed. DO NOT use H4895 in a cartridge where it has not been shown."

        As the maximum load listed for H4895 (AR2206H) is 36 grains; 60% is 22 grains, to avoid the possibility of a double charge 24 grains.

        What do you guys think?

        Is anyone using a load like that?
        Yes, definately. I have used the Hodgdon 60% rule for AR2206H/H4895 in the 30-30 and the 35 Whelen using cast projectiles. I feel this is very safe and a versatile addition to the reloading options. So I have taken jacketed data for Ar2206H from ADI and applied the 60% rule to give a starting load and worked up from there. A chronograph is very useful if available. These are light but not very light loads like trail boss, at the minimum loads there will be plenty of velocity for cast to exit the barrel.

        I do not know enough about fillers to use them so I do not. As a result I do see some velocity variation at the lower loads, however I just increase until that variation disappears.

        Another option that increases your prediction about how a load will work is to use the 1grain reduction method from the Lee Manual 2nd Ed if you have it - this allows you to estimate (roughly!) pressure and velocity.

        Comment


        • #7
          Hi guys, first happy new year.

          I went to the range Monday; usually when refining loads, I like to shoot ten shot groups. On this occasion, I was going back to the drawing board. I loaded up 60 rounds (5 rounds of each load) using three different powders; the loads were designed to provide rounds with velocity running from 1400-1600 fps.

          Well needless to say after the first two loads, I was thinking here we go again, I just love shooting my shotgun!

          Then, and I swear I had tried this load before (only 18 months previously, and without a firm crimp) I got a five shot group that looked like it came out of a rifle.

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          I was for the first time smiling whilst using this rifle, though I don't want to count my chickens, this load will be getting trialed again soon with 10 rounds!

          Another 15 rounds and three loads past, and again we where enjoying the choke-less shotgun experience! Then as before came another group which looked promising, using a different powder from the first.

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          The M96 produces more variation from a 1 grain difference in load than any other cartridge I have loaded for!

          The sweet spot for velocity seemed to be around 1500 fps. Though I wish I could measure pressure or extrapolate it, as I suspect it has as much to do with grouping. There does not seem to be much data in reloading manuals for pressure in the 6.5x55 cartridge!

          I will try and take it out again on Sunday and shoot ten shot groups of those two loads and loads within .2 grains either side of either.

          Comment


          • #8
            I can not help with cast loads for the 6.5 x 55 but I can say I have had 2 of these rifles both ex military, 1 x M96 with a perfect bore and 1 x M38 (M96 carbine) with a slightly eroded bore. Now the M38 I used 100gr Sierra HP with 38.5gr of AR2206H and it would just shot MOA at a100m. the M96 also carbine length after it was shortened with the same projectile and powder I could never get better than 1.5 MOA. Great calibre but I have sold them now to buy more cowboy gear!

            Comment


            • andyjm79
              andyjm79 commented
              Editing a comment
              Well once I got chance, it stopped being 40-45C and the biblical rain fall had ceased here in SA, and the Lever fever didn't have me in its grasp (I find it hard to want to shoot bolts when I have such beautiful levers that beg to be shot); I finally after weeks of threatening to, took the Mauser out again and shot 2 10 shoot groups at 100 yards. The load was AR2207 15 grains and 16 grains, the 15 grain load was the winner by around 1/2"!

              I was happy with the load for 100 yard shooting (2 1/2" 10 shot group), it certainly would be in the kill zone for medium sized game!

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              I still don't think this load is 3 MOA compatible at 300 yards! But next time I go to the range with the M96 I am going to take it out to 200 and see what I get!

          • #9
            I've just realised something.
            You and I work together. :P.
            Pm sent.

            Comment

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