.310 Cadet Reloading

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  • .310 Cadet Reloading

    Hello

    Just wondering if anybody reloads for the .310 Cadet? I am soon to get one and would appreciate any information. I believe brass is available form Bertram.
    Has anyone had any experience with the .310 bullets from Hawkesbury? Is there any tricks/problems with reloading this round?

    Thanks for your help

  • #2
    I generally run 4 gn of AP70n under the HBRC heeled bullet. It's a very light load, but pretty accurate. Some people have issues with the HRBC projy, but I've found them to be pretty good.

    There's a trick to loading the heeled projectile: after you seat the projies, pull the decapping pin out of the FLS die, and run the loaded cartridge partially into the die. It crimps the case mouth down, so the rounds will chamber easily.

    Also, I don't generally full length size my cases, I just decap and then reload.

    Cheers,
    Alex

    Comment


    • sean6.555
      sean6.555 commented
      Editing a comment
      Don't buy Lee dies.Go the Simplex.
      Hawkesbury two choices.
      Spartan http://spartan.boxhost.me/spartanprojectiles/pages/projectile%20list.html also show a 125 gr .316
      There is a bit of debate as to bore dia. and which dia. projectile works best .316 or .323.so a bit of trial and error until you find out what your particular rifle likes.
      Trail boss, AP70n,AR 2205, are the typical powders AR22205 will be dirty so I would try to use the pistol powders.
      The old forum had some great info but I didn't copy it sorry. Some one may have?
      Check if you chamber is cadet or if it has been opened up to except 32-20, it may have had the rim depth set back to except the ticker 32-20 rim.
      Bit long and old but some really good info that helped me out, also Bad Ass Wallace may chip in here. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?7881-310-Cadet-Reloading-101-part-1/page5&s=3782da4bf2ab117fde9c525ae1274e5e
      If you want some 122gr .316 Hawkesbury's to try send me a pm. They are great fun and surprisingly accurate.

  • #3
    To reload for the 310 Cadet it is important to determine exactely your bore diameter and size projectiles a minimum of 0.001" bigger. I have 12 Cadets and all bar one has the standard 0.316 bore while an SA marked Greener mics 0.321". If yours falls into the tight bore there is no need to use heeled bullets as this only reduces the bearing length in the rifling and extensive testing has proven that is so. In the Greener I load a conventional .321"projectile for the 32/40 Winchester and it is also quite accurate.

    You also need to understand what the conversion to 32/20 involved. Gunsmiths used the standard .310 Cadet reamer and advanced it about 1/10 th of an inch then cut a deeper recess for the thicker rim of the 32/20 case. A case fired in a Cadet will not fit a 32/20 Winchester chamber. Effectively, the case becomes blown out tapered case and I prefer to call it a .310 Magnum.

    Unless you are going to accurately trim your cases then crimping is also a waste of effort in a single shot. As little as 3-4 thou variation in case length can make a big difference to the neck tensions and consequently affect velocity and accuracy

    The difference between a .310 case and a 32/20 Case


    L to R, loaded .310Cadet, .310 Magnum and a reformed 32/20 ready for fireforming. Note the crimp on the .310 is for use in a 6 shot Winchester repeater and the un formed 32/20 is also heavily crimped but only at first firing.


    15 rounds at 50m with a load of 4.5gns AP70 and a conventional bullet sized to .317"
    Hold still varmint, whilst I plugs ya!

    Comment


    • sean6.555
      sean6.555 commented
      Editing a comment
      Great to see BAW here he has probably forgotten more about cadets than I will ever know.

  • #4
    Hi...

    I have several .310 Cadet rifles and use them only on the odd occasion but always with a smile on my face. These are great pleasent little things to use. No wonder they were a training rifle.

    Reloading is just as simple. Use Lee Dies that I bought from Westerns, the same place I brought the brass ( BTW I do not like Bertram Brass). For powder I use Trailboss Powder; I use an 052 Lee dipper full...BUT level the top carefully. Projectiles are from Hawkesbury River as they are all I can find in any of the LGS. They do the trick.

    You can trim down the base of 32/20 rounds to use as brass or you can just shoot 32/20 in them; so I am told.

    I was very lucky to get his the other day...a box with 48 un fired rounds of .310 ammo...Boxer primed.

    Click image for larger version

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    Paul

    Comment


    • sean6.555
      sean6.555 commented
      Editing a comment
      Ok here is a pic of a Hawkesbury 122gr .316 I used to slug the bore of my cadet .Very little contact with the groves so I will be using the .323 in the future.
      My old girl is a bitser rifle non matching anything barrel receiver and action all have different no. and at some stage the barrel had the rim opened up to except 32-20 witch is good and bad. Good because brass is easer and cheaper and I get what BAW calls ".310 Magnum", bad because before I actually got my hands on it I went out and got a heap of brass that I now do not need or would use in this particular rifle dew to the rims being thinner than the 32-20.



      Hawkesbury 122gr .316

      I have found that Bertram Brass when new is very soft, the length is also all over the place and they are undersize. So you need to take that into consideration. I load several straight wall cartridges and initially found that the cadet a little frustrating to load for, the combination of lee dies and the Bertram brass being soft and undersize caused some issues to start. As you can see below there is considerable bulging of the case when the proj. is seated. As mentioned before by removing the de primer pin of the FLS die and running the loaded case through the die squares them up and I would expect after fire forming the brass this problem would be greatly reduced. As I have one that excepts the 32-20 and I got a heap of loaded ammo and brass with it I now don't need to worry about that. Reloading for them is a little frustrating but as the only real option for ammo for these rifles once you work it out it no deferent than any other straight wall case.

      Hawkesbury 122gr .316 Hawkesbury 128gr .323 healed Spartan 125gr 316 in "310 magnum" 32-20

    • Bad Ass Wallace
      Bad Ass Wallace commented
      Editing a comment
      Originally posted by paul" post=13439
      I have several .310 Cadet rifles and use them only on the odd occasion but always with a smile on my face.
      Got one with a bayonet?


  • #5
    Thanks for all the information. Lots of good tips. Sounds like AP-70 is the go for powder.
    How do you find out the exact size of the bore?

    Comment


    • Guest's Avatar
      Guest commented
      Editing a comment
      I use 8.7 Gns of AR 2205 with the HRBC 122gn projectile which mirrors the original black powder loading and gives 1200 FPS in velocity. The trajectory follows the sight settings almost exactly.

      Have fun.

  • #6
    Thanks for the tip of using Simplex dies rather than Lee.
    I have a Lee press - has anyone had problems using Simplex dies in a Lee?
    Also, my cadet is a Westley Richards rather than the newer BSA/Greener. Are there any differences in loading techniques for these, especially chamber & bore size?
    Regards, Doc

    Comment


    • Chrispy
      Chrispy commented
      Editing a comment
      Slug your bore with a 310 bullet. A Westley Richards is a different monster compared to the more common BSA's, and even Greeners. This being said, the principles are all the same. Slug the bore, size your projectiles to 1 or 2 thou over bore size, and seat with a mild crimp. Use a powder that you like (I prefer AP70 as it burns cleanly and gives very repectable accuracy) and trial either small rifle or pistol primers and see what it likes.
      Pressure signs in a cadet are about ability to extract a case, not primer flattening etc. My cadet (BSA-1911) can go up to 5.5 gns of AP70, but 4 gns is the sweet spot. Check the bullet lube is good, whether it be wax, Alox or hitek stuff.
      And remeber to simply enjoy the Cadet, it is very mild, fun to use, and can reliably hit targets at 300m and entertain you all day.
      Chrispy

    • sean6.555
      sean6.555 commented
      Editing a comment
      Originally posted by Doc Martini" post=93380
      Thanks for the tip of using Simplex dies rather than Lee.
      I have a Lee press - has anyone had problems using Simplex dies in a Lee?
      It depends there are two types of Simplex dies, the smaller dies for the Super Simplex turret press or the larger Simplex Master Die Set - 7/8x14TPI which will fit a standard press. Easy way to tell the ones you have is if they screw into your press all good, if they fall through the press they will require a press adapter which you can buy "Super Simplex 5/8" - 7/8x14TPI Adaptor".

      That simple.

  • #7
    Sorry to come in late, but I've just found this thread and was interested to see Asheep's tip about crimping the case using the FLS die with the pin removed. I've heard of this technique before but have never been able to get my head around it. With a projie that's the same diameter as the case, how does the sizer crimp the case without pulling the projie out afterwards?

    Comment


    • Riz
      Riz commented
      Editing a comment
      Originally posted by Riz" post=109725
      Sorry to come in late, but I've just found this thread and was interested to see Asheep's tip about crimping the case using the FLS die with the pin removed. I've heard of this technique before but have never been able to get my head around it. With a projie that's the same diameter as the case, how does the sizer crimp the case without pulling the projie out afterwards?
      Anyone?

  • #8
    ive used them a bit in black powder comps years past,they can give great accuracy with BP once u match your projectile to your bore dia.

    Comment


    • #9
      I use the 128 gr Hawkesbury bullet in front of 7 gr of AR2205 and it works really well - albeit at about 900 fps. Any slower and you could watch the bullet fly towards the target! Tons of fun but, and yeah, you have to resize the loaded cartridge to get it to chamber. Don't worry about how bulged and ugly they look when they're loaded - they shoot just fine. Bertram brass in .310 cadet is the way to go, but is a bit fragile and you do crush a few loading them. I still found it much better than mucking around with .32-20 brass.

      Comment


      • #10
        Does anyone know what diameter the original FMJ projectile was?
        WTB: 38/40 barrel or donor rifle, snider/p53 lock and breech parts, 10-15 round blued 38 super 1911 mag, AIA/skk mag with star on the side. Pm me on forum.

        Comment


        • Windrider
          Windrider commented
          Editing a comment
          Originally posted by alkapitano" post=190318
          Does anyone know what diameter the original FMJ projectile was?
          Just for you I went and measured a couple -- .314"

          Cheers.

        • LtFrankDrebbin
          LtFrankDrebbin commented
          Editing a comment
          Originally posted by alkapitano" post=190318
          Does anyone know what diameter the original FMJ projectile was?
          The one ex militarily I have is .3165


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      • #11
        Tiapan made jacketted bullets of .316; I still have 2 boxes.

        I think you have to measue the bullet out of the case - should be 0.316"
        Hold still varmint, whilst I plugs ya!

        Comment


        • #12
          Interesting. I slugged my .310 today and it came in at .320. I don't reload for it at the moment, just been using 32-20 ammo and only plinking with it every now and then for the last few years. Will have to get some dies soon and start reloading.
          WTB: 38/40 barrel or donor rifle, snider/p53 lock and breech parts, 10-15 round blued 38 super 1911 mag, AIA/skk mag with star on the side. Pm me on forum.

          Comment


          • #13
            If you are firing 32/20 there is something wrong - you might not have a .310 Cadet, but one that is modified to take 32/20. The walls will blow out to almost straight and it is longer than .310?

            What does a fired case look like left, centre, or right! ???

            Hold still varmint, whilst I plugs ya!

            Comment


            • alkapitano
              alkapitano commented
              Editing a comment
              Originally posted by Bad Ass Wallace" post=190456
              If you are firing 32/20 there is something wrong - you might not have a .310 Cadet, but one that is modified to take 32/20. The walls will blow out to almost straight and it is longer than .310?

              What does a fired case look like left, centre, or right! ???

              The brass comes out with a straight wall like the second one. When they recut the chamber for 32-20 do they lengthen the chamber or just modify the rim groove?

          • #14
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            These are the two I measured. Both were .314” above and below the cannelure, but both very slightly larger at .315” at the very base of the bullet. That’s with my 50 year old Mitutoyo dial calipers anyway. But they are giving me correct readings on similar .30cal bullets so I have no reason to doubt them.

            Bullets weighed in at 123.9gr and 125.2gr.

            Maybe quality control wasn’t too hot when that batch was made. They came from two boxes that were issued to a farmer in FNQ along with a rifle, that I now own, so that he could “resist the Japs” when they arrived. I also have a bullet that was retrieved after firing, and I must say the engraving from the rifling does look pretty shallow. I have no idea how accurate those rounds were because my cousin shot off what was left of those packets when I was living overseas.


            @ Lt Frank, I would be interested to know what your bullet weighs?
            No trees were harmed in the production of this post, but some electrons were greatly inconvenienced.

            Comment


            • #15
              Windrider,
              that bullet is 125gr. Case is a twin flash hole job with MF .310 head stamp

              Comment


              • Windrider
                Windrider commented
                Editing a comment
                Originally posted by LtFrankDrebbin" post=190484
                Windrider,
                that bullet is 125gr. Case is a twin flash hole job with MF .310 head stamp
                Yeah, same as the cases my bullets came out of, and the same chopped cordite powder.
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