30-30 with three bullets, now four powders

[NewsteadVic]

This is a re-print from the shooting.com.au forum but I thought I would bring it across as if I wrote it then it must be pretty good - right?

These are three molds I have currently in .309, all Lee molds. All shot through a Winchester 1894 with Lyman aperture sights at 50 metres.
Left to Right is the Lee 309-170-FP; Lee 309-150-FP and Lee TL-314-90-SWC.



All alloy is Wheel Weights with 2% tin for better fill out, air cooled. All get sized to .311 using a Lee push through sizer.
The two GC projectiles get aluminum GC and pan lubed with Bee Wax/Vaseline/Lanolin/Crayon (except one target below with 45/45/10 - see note). The little 90grain SWC is tumble lubed with Lee Liquid Alox.

The little 90grain SWC is loaded over 7.0grains of Trail Boss. This load as nil recoil, very little report and is just a great fun round to shoot in the Win 1894. Even though it is so short it feeds well in the Win 1894. You do need some fiddling to get them seated in the case - I use a short piece of rod, around 6mm long inside the bullet seating die to make sure the projectle is seated enough. Nil crimp, just enough to take the case mouth flare off.


The 150grain Flat Point has been trialled with AP70N and Trail Boss but I just could not get any results worthy of reporting back. I know a bit more about cast tricks and might go back to AP70N to see what I can do. I feel AP70N is similar in burning rate to Unique but more position sensitive.
AR2206H and AR2205 have both been good with the 150grain. Loading data comes from ADI booklet in the Single action section for 2206H and The Lyman Cast Handbook 4th Ed for 2205 (Hodgdon 4227) data.


This target is using the same load but with 45% Lee Liquid Alox/45% carnubra wax/10% mineral spirits:




I have not done much work with the 170grain FP as yet. I have used the Lyman data for AR2205 (Hodgdon 4227) and the 170grain:

[Macca]

Good info Newstead, I must have overlooked this area of the forum. Just in time before I get my new 336 Marlin.

Cheers.

[NewsteadVic]

Thanks, still a work in progress.

I have a chronograph now and so have some velocities for those loads:

Lee TL-90-314-SWC and 7.0grains Trailboss 1480fps
Lee FP-150-309-GC and 19.0grains AR2206H 1653fps
Lee FP-150-309-GC and 18.0grains AR2205 1737fps Avg (1784, 1766, 1763, 1670, 1703)

I have also branched out into using AR2208 for the higher velocities and the 170grain and 2206H for the 150grain.


This last target is not from the prior Winchester 1894 but a Savage 340 bolt gun in 30-30. I am going to do some load development with this and see how the Ar2208 goes. The load data for this is just the ADI load data for 170grain jacketed, starting one grain below minimum. AR2208 is not a good powder to reduce below minimum however I felt safe with coming down just one grain to 28.0grains. The 170grain and 28.5grains Ar2208 gave 1790, 1741, 1756 and 1715 fps but less accuracy than 28.0grains.
The 150grain and 30.5grains AR2208 gave 1861, 1945, 1846, 1915 fps so obviously the bullet is a bit light to give consistent ignition. I could crimp the 150 or use something like 2205 or 2206H.

[NewsteadVic]

Was out shooting with Burp this afternoon. I have been doing some more work with the Savage 340 in 30-30 - this AR2205 load with 150grain Lee FP was the best result today, interestingly the velocity is the same as the accuracy result from above with the 170grain and 28.0grains 2208:


I shot some 150grain with 31.0grain 2208 for 1938fps and 170grain with 29.5grain 2208 for 1888fps and 170grain ACWW with 30.0grain 2208 for 1910 fps without accuracy, groups 4-5 inches.

This bears up with this thread:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?208186-RPM-Threshold-barrel-twist-velocity-chart

Which suggests that the faster

Some interesting results there, today I loaded some 30-30 dry lubed165g cast FN projectiles and some 150g Sierra FN using 2208. I am hoping I get some decent results with the 2208 because I use a lot of 2208 in my other rifles. I will pick up some trail boss during the week to also start some experimenting with it. I am hoping to get out in the next day or two (weather pending) and shoot the new 30-30Marlin with a few handloads. I will post a few results up later after testing the 2208 with 150g and 165g cast pills.

Thanks for taking the time to post your results , cheers Macca.

[NewsteadVic]

Next job is to re-shoot the 170grain with 28.0grains AR2208 and the 150grain with the 19.0grains AR2205 and 30.0grains AR2208, these seem to have been the accuracy loads so far, the 150grain with 30.0grains 2208 was 1800fps but the other two 1700fps.

Do you have any particular goals with velocity goals - hunting, plinking, silhouette?

Next job is to re-shoot the 170grain with 28.0grains AR2208 and the 150grain with the 19.0grains AR2205 and 30.0grains AR2208, these seem to have been the accuracy loads so far, the 150grain with 30.0grains 2208 was 1800fps but the other two 1700fps.

Do you have any particular goals with velocity goals - hunting, plinking, silhouette?

I just want an accurate pig and goat load, good reloading cost because I shoot lots. I am hoping the 165g casts shoot ok, the projectiles average out at around 167g, they look good, there is a variation of about 5 grains across the whole cast batch . The Sierra Pro Hunter 150g look the goods for the piggies, I will start at 31g 2208 for the 150g and and work from there. The casts I will start at 28g and work up and just see. The range I will be shooting at will be close, probably most shooting will be under 75m and more like 30-50m, cant wait to shoot a couple of critters with the 30-30 .

[sigman]

Hi, been trying to get a load with traillboss up to the shoulder of case with 170gn lee mold but very poor results, can't even hit a steel plate at 50 -60 yards, maybe a lighter pill maybe 150 or less might work. Anybody worked a good traillboss or light load out? Tips would be much appreciated?

Hi, been trying to get a load with traillboss up to the shoulder of case with 170gn lee mold but very poor results, can't even hit a steel plate at 50 -60 yards, maybe a lighter pill maybe 150 or less might work. Anybody worked a good traillboss or light load out? Tips would be much appreciated?

Trail boss is a very fast burning pistol powder, just bulked up. From using Trail Boss in 30/30 and 35 whelen and 308 however I will say that Trail Boss does best for what it was designed for - low to moderate velocity, short range work. I would suggest that you have far too much Trail Boss in the cartridge. I would go down to the 70% loading of that full case and work up, looking for accuracy. My most accurate load with trail boss is as above, only 7.0grains.

This is a great thread from the Paco Kelly forum however it does demonstrate a pressure curve for Trail Boss which is interesting in the peak it gets to compared to BP:
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27410


Showing how Trail Boss burns very fast, faster than black powder. Than sudden pressure curve probably causes the projectile to suffer slipping in the rifling or nose slump and this affects accuracy.