black widow 30-30

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  • black widow 30-30

    Hey guys, bought some 165gr coated projectiles for the dirty 30. would someone be able to point me out a starting load for these? would like to try get 1700fps if possible, if not a bit more. Also has anyone tried these in their 30-30? how did they go?

  • #2
    It's been years but what i rember is it took days of cleaning to take the "black coat" out of the bore. Accuracy was good enough for up to 100.
    If you're going through hell, keep going."
    Winston Churchill

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    • #3
      I have loaded and shot thousands of 165gr HRBC cast projies without issue.
      The load is listed in the ADI site manual in the Single Action section although I think they have added them to the normal loads section now.
      I go 1 gr higher than the ADI max with AR2207 but they are still more of a 50m plinker as they start to keyhole at 100yds.
      They go about 1,550fps.
      I tried the Trail Boss loads they list, more to fill the case properly as the 07 is about 1/2 full and can be double charged so care is needed and a visual check of the tray of filled cases before seating is a must.
      The TB loads are like shooting a 22 and close to subsonic so what's the point, they do shoot well at 50yds.

      Blokes are loading the cast projies up much hotter now as the powder coating is handling it well.
      They can go until the base of the projy starts melting but I don't want to find out about that.
      Lots of the old blokes that cast say you need gas checks to avoid leading and I have yet to find what sort of loads they are shooting.

      I am thinking of getting the gas check type projies and building up with a normal rifle powder like 2208 as I can't find the info to load non gas checked projies higher with no risks of leading and foolproof safety.
      1.700fps would still be about as fast as I expect to go, but won't know for sure until I start doing it.

      Good luck finding out the hotter non gas checked loads but if you do, please post it up as I will cross check my specs and build up if I can work out a good starting load.

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      • #4
        Thanks Guys
        ADI have come back to me and suggested using the starting load for the 160gr as they don't list a 165gr lead bullet. Not sounding too promising, was hoping to get reasonable accuracy to at least 150m. Oh well, will give it a go, bit of range playtime never hurt anyone!

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        • #5
          About the only starting load tip that sounded reasonable to me was about 80% of the jacketed projectile loads.
          Now I can't remember and don't seem to have noted it in my loads book but the 80% may have been for gas checked cast projies.
          If so, the non-checked powder-coated loads would be lower, maybe 60-70%, will try to find the thread and post it if successful.

          You have to consider that the 30-30 is on the slow side with full loads so I can't see it shooting that far with lower cast loads.
          They do use casts for Silhouette shooting, so it can be done somehow, possibly using even heavier projies for the rams and aiming for a tree branch some distance above.
          Last edited by magoo; 20-04-2021, 07:15 PM.

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          • #6
            May no help but I use the Lee 309 170 grain flat nose Gas check mold for use in my 300blkout.

            I powder coat them and I don't use a gas check, I'm loading 5.7 grn of Trailboss for 995fps out a 16" barrel.

            My lead hardness for that rifle running subsonic loads is 12bhn.

            If I'm shooting faster with 2205 powder I run a gascheck over the Powdercoat prjy. Not really needed for powdercoated prjys, but I do it as I have plenty of gaschecks to use up from the old alox lub and wax lube methods.

            I make 100 300blkout rnds for $12 primers being the most expensive at $9per100. Cheap fun for the kids to plink away and where I'm at cheaper then buying 22lr

            For 30-30 you start at about 70% fill and work your way up and stop when you start getting pressure signs. I may still have the load data I did for my uncles 3030 in trailboss with Same projectile.

            For subs you start and work your way down, to a desired speed.

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            • #7
              Good info Skip, I would greatly appreciate any of the load info you can dig up as I can't find much as a guide to start and build up.
              I was not sure enough to build up further with Trail Boss or even the fast-burning 2207.
              I have settled on 1gr above the ADI book max on both of these powders with the following results using coated 165gr HRBC with no checks.
              18gr of 2207 resulting in 1,547fps
              9gr of Trail Boss going 1,254fps

              As I was unsure about going higher with the faster burning powders, my first plan was to use 2208 and build up to a bit of a faster load with or without gas checks, just thinking gas checks will avoid the possibility of leading the barrel.
              I didn't really expect to go near pressure signs and expected leading problems first, don't want to go there as well.
              The ADI load of 16 or 17gr of 2207 is only about half a case full and that's what I was wondering about, why so low and the very slight risk of that double or second ignition with not much powder in the case.

              Not having the information or knowledge is why I haven't tried any new faster loads.

              For jetA1, I found that post but it was for gas-checked projectiles he was doing.
              He started at 60% of the ADI max book load for non-coated cast projies.
              With the powder coated projies coming onto the scene, he went to 80%
              No recipe for non gas-checked projies.

              Still lots of unanswered questions and lots of blokes won't give loads as the silly facebook types will just load them up and shoot rather than build up like anyone with more than half a brain would do.

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              • #8
                I'm pretty sure I used 2208 powder for the powder coated and gas check for uncles 3030. I used the 180 load (jacket data) started think 2 grns under that start load and worked up to a good node. Above is what I recall, don't take it for gospel till I can confirm with my data.

                Ill have a dig for the data over the weekend.

                I tried 3 molds for 309 150,170,225 grn (225 for blk and 30 the 170 shot best out of the 3 molds, ideally if your not using a gascheck a flatbase mold is better for PC bullets some new molds getting about with no driving bands etc with good results.

                Safe to say I won't go back to old pan lube or alox lube method. Pc here to stay with my cast loads. Kids can bang off 100odd pc blkout loads in a day and barrel is pretty clean. Couple patches and it's done.



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                • #9
                  Yeah, I won't poor lead anymore, done enough sinkers for a lifetime supply LOL.
                  I will just buy HRBC 165gr from Les as they are cheap anyway, it was him, that suggested to just load up the powder-coated projies hotter as blokes are getting them flying real fast with no gas checks, faster than a 30-30 will ever go with jackets.
                  He said the powder coating is holding up past the limit when the base of the pill is melting.
                  I rang to order some of the gas check type so he would have lost money on the advice.
                  I still feel the gas check is the safest way to go if I want more speed, but they may be fine without checks.
                  So much tossing up over which way to go, I have not even started.

                  With the price of ammo and jacketed projectiles, plus the dirty-30 being too slow to wear out the barrel, it will always be used for some plinking fun, offhand practice, and open-sighted shooting, peep sight so I can still hit shit.
                  Last edited by magoo; 01-05-2021, 01:12 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Done some loads to test, maybe next Friday if the stars line up.

                    Just went from around 19.5 to 22gr of 2208 pushing the plain, non gas-checked 165 flat round nose HRBC cast PC projies.
                    The lower loads could be just double-charged with about 4mm before the case was full.
                    The high charge would just spill over if double charged.

                    I can judge them by recoil feel compared to my other 2 pop loads and go further if all is well.
                    If I get what I want with no leading, all good.
                    If not, the gas-checks will get me what I am after.
                    Should be interesting and always good fun plinking with the Dirty-30

                    You could kill stuff within about 70m with a load like this but during my prepping buying, I scored 3 packs of those soft plastic tipped Hrdy projies for about $50 a pack and have a few packs of the old soft points if I ever go pig shooting.

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                    • #11
                      Thanks Guys, some decent info and a lot to think on, projies only just been shipped and still need to get to the shop to top up the powder supply.
                      Magoo, also have some of those hornady FTX, mrs gun just does not like them, minute of orange to grapefruit is as best I could get, so they are really a bit of a paperweight for now

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                      • #12
                        I stayed away from the FTX because they cost a lot more than the round or flat round noses that went OK for the brush gun.
                        Then read posts from a bloke that would use nothing else and swore by the hunting advantages.

                        When I got them cheap and did some test loads, they grouped OK but nothing special to rave about.
                        Just gave me some stock for these funny times ahead.

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                        • #13
                          I tested my 2208 cast loads from 20 to 22gr yesterday and they shot as well as most 30-30 ammo at 50m.

                          Trouble is they felt weaker than the old standard pop load of 18gr of 2207 that I am trying to supersede.
                          The highest charge of 22gr did feel comparable but means I have to keep building and risk leading.
                          Should still be OK as 23gr of 08 is about 70% of the ADI max for coated bullets so will do test loads of 22 to 24gr.

                          If I find something that shoots and feels like a real 30cal rifle with no leading problems, I can then measure the speed and check for any keyholing at 100yds.
                          If I achieve that, they could well be used hunting as they will put holes in things but hunting is not that costly on ammo so I will just load full jacketed ammo for that.

                          I forgot to check any at the 100m target but did send some Hrndy FTXs and they were in that tennis ball or minute of pig size so all good with no scope.

                          If I don't get what I am looking for, I just have to start again but with gas checks to avoid the barrel-leading problems.

                          This reloading shit just goes on and on and never ends.

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                          • #14
                            You shouldn't have leading issues in the 303 with powder coated cast pills, I've read a lot of reports, people push there coated non gas heck projys too 2600ish without leading. Of course bhn comes into play when going that hard.

                            Read reports of gaschecked powder coated pills being driven at factory 223 speeds. With little to no foul.

                            I'ed say you would be safe getting 3030 speeds without leading.

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                            • #15
                              Thank's Skip

                              Blokes are pushing them from what I hear and the dude that makes them recommends to just stoke them up so I will just go steady and stop at a conservative load well under my 150gr jacketed full loads.

                              It just needs to feel like shooting a centerfire rather than a .22 and getting to 100yd before tumbling would be nice.

                              It just feels different going it alone without cross-checking with manuals.
                              Will check where speeds should be and work up some more.

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