Correct fitment of a Polish M44 sling

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  • Correct fitment of a Polish M44 sling

    Hi guys

    I know this was covered in detail with pics on the old forum (how I wish I'd copied some of the invaluable information and write-ups from there when I still had the chance!), but am looking for a description/pics of the correct orientation of a Polish carbine sling on an M44. This sling isn't the common dog-collar type Soviet 91/30 sling with the canvas-loop adjustment but a short Polish-issue one where the leather straps on either end of the canvas (one short and one longer) make up the adjustment. Have googled images however both ways of fitment are shown in the various pics.

  • #2
    Hey GSR - you and me both mate - I found out exactly the same thing.... but have fitted mine with the buckle facing out on the bolt handle/right hand side - ... could be wrong.... and happy to know the correct way. Cheers, Macca

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    • #3
      Not surprisingly, the Eastern Bloc like the whole 'uniformity' thing....and most Soviet satellite countries used the exactly the same way of doing things as the Sovs did...

      If you're using a 'standard' type Mosin Nagant sling (with dog collars, sling loop and metal slider), the 'big' loop should be at the butt end of the carbine/rifle and the fixed loop at the front....ilke so...

      This arrangement is also what is shown in the Red Army Mosin Nagant manual.

      If you're using the PPSh-41/M1944 type sling (with two buckles and leather end tabs), long tab at the back and buckles 'facing' to the right side of the carbine when looking forward from the butt.

      That also keeps the major adjustment consistently at the rear of the rifle/carbine and the buckles to the offside for a right-handed rifleman (so it was less likely to snag clothing or other gear when being carried rather than slung).
      Member of the Aunty Jack Firearm Appreciation Society - "Now be a good little Aussie and learn how to shoot or I'll rip your bloody arms off......and I will too!"

      "Have you tried unloading it then reloading it?" - Roy Trenneman on fixing firearm problems

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      • #4
        Thanks for the info Dreadnought - I have the PPSh-41/M1944 type - so I have in on the correct way - and guessed right! Cheers, macca

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          Cheers Dreadnought; didn't want to make the faux pas of incorrectly fitting a genuine sling to a ex-mil rifle. It's actually going on a Hungarian M44 however since genuine Hungarian-issue slings for those are evidentially as rare as rocking horse excretia, I figured that the Polish ones which are readily available would be a reasonable compromise under the circumstances.

      • #5
        The Polish First Army during WW2 and a number of other Soviet formations commonly used the PPSh-41 type sling for both the M1944 and the PPSh-41.
        I've even seen photos of Soviet cavalry carrying M1938 carbines on the PPSh-41/M1944 slings (.....or should I say 'PPSh-41/M1938/M1944' slings......nah!!!)
        In fact the Poles liked them so much they ended up manufacturing them for use with their M1944 carbines, PPSh-41 SMGs and the Wz-48 trainers but they also manufactured the 'standard' type sling too. To the best of my knowledge, the Poles were the only European Soviet satellite country to manufacture the PPSh-41/M1944 sling. As an aside, I've also seen Russian black leather versions of this type of sling (and I think even LTC have some currently IIRC).

        I've got both Russian & Polish versions of the PPSh-41/M1944 webbing slings and one of the Russian M1938/M1944 carbine slings (Standard type but shorter than the normal 91/30 sling). Liberty Tree have in the last six months had both the Soviet and Polish versions of the 'buckle' sling...and they have correctly identified and sold them as such.
        .
        There are quite a few of the PPSh-41/M1944 slings now popping up on eBay too at the moment...
        Member of the Aunty Jack Firearm Appreciation Society - "Now be a good little Aussie and learn how to shoot or I'll rip your bloody arms off......and I will too!"

        "Have you tried unloading it then reloading it?" - Roy Trenneman on fixing firearm problems

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          Thanks for the additional info on the origins of the different slings guys. Yeah, seems that the one I got off LTC is the Wz-48 trainer/PPsh-41 one then; still seems to do the job & looks good on my M44 though. I'm assuming the original issue Hungarian M44 sling was based on the Soviet one then?

      • #6
        Illustrations in the official Polish Army manual for the M1944 carbine do appear to show a 'buckle' PPSh-41/M1944 type sling rather than a 'dog collar' type whereas the Soviet Mosin Nagant manual clearly shows a dog-collar sling. Given the number of buckle slings the Poles inherited from the Soviets (together with the M1944 carbines & PPSh-41 SMGs to which they were attached) at the end of the Great Patriotic War AND the fact that the Poles commenced manufacturing these slings for themselves (and later also made M1944s and PPSh-41s at Radom), the buckle slings were used by the Poles for their PPSh-41s, M1944s and Wz-48s.

        Given the huge number of Polish 'buckle' slings around compared with the extreme rarity of Polish 'standard' slings may suggest that for the Poles, the 'standard' sling was indeed only really a 'substitute standard' sling.

        The Polish ones from LTC are correct and 'prototypical' for a Polish M1944, Wz-48 or PPSh-41 ....but if you do have the last one of those listed firearms, Mr Plod may wish to have words with you...

        The Hungarians generally would have used the standard dog collar slings....and in fact, all the photos I've seen of Hungarian Mosin rifles & carbines did show them fitted with dog collar slings.
        Member of the Aunty Jack Firearm Appreciation Society - "Now be a good little Aussie and learn how to shoot or I'll rip your bloody arms off......and I will too!"

        "Have you tried unloading it then reloading it?" - Roy Trenneman on fixing firearm problems

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        • #7
          Thanks again Dreadnought - good stuff indeed - you have access to some great reference material! Cheers, macca

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          • #8
            ...and more to come soon too, Tovarich!

            Just working through a heap of extra Mosin and Toz info from Soviet small arms manuals of the Great Patriotic War...
            I'll start a new thread for that stuff though.
            Member of the Aunty Jack Firearm Appreciation Society - "Now be a good little Aussie and learn how to shoot or I'll rip your bloody arms off......and I will too!"

            "Have you tried unloading it then reloading it?" - Roy Trenneman on fixing firearm problems

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            • #9
              Here's some info re arms production at Radom from their own website! Radom Arsenal's website

              In January 1947, the first small arms manufactured at the Radom plant were Soviet licensed Tokarev pistols, known in Poland as ‘pw sz.33’ – ‘pistolet wojskowy wz.1933’ or Model of 1933 Military Pistol. These were initially marked with a prewar triangular FB logo, and carried grip plates with triangular medallions, just like the prewar Vis – but this time the right plate carried letters ‘PW’ inside a triangle instead of ‘VIS’. The Tokarev was being manufactured until 1956, and 225,000 pistols were made (including over a dozen thousand of the .22 LR ‘Sportowy’ training variant. o­n September 15, 1948 the name was changed from Państwowa Fabryka Broni (State Arms Factory) to Zjednoczone Zakłady Wyrobów Metalowych, Zakład Nr 1, or United Metalworking Works, Work Nr 1 – thus obliterating the ‘politically incorrect’ prewar name and logo. Further licensed Soviet small arms for the Polish Army commenced into serial manufacture at the Radom plant. In November 1949 the 26 mm signal pistol wz.44 was introduced, manufactured until as late as 1977 in 250,000 examples. During the same year the Mosin kbk wz.44 carbine chambered in 7.62 mm x 54R came into series manufacture – 343,000 of these were manufactured until 1955. Along with the kbk wz.44 the first post-war Radom’s own design was manufactured, the kbks wz.48 training carbine, being a .22 LR face-lifted to resemble the kbk wz.44 Mosin carbine variant of the pre-war kbk S wz.31. This was manufactured at Radom until 1956, as a main initial training and shooting sports carbine for youth and paramilitary organizations, as well as the military. The kbks wz.48, affectively known as the ‘Radomka’ became the first firearm for generations of Poles, who were taught shooting at school as part of the Junior ROTC-style ‘military education’ classes.

              The apex of the production capabilities was reached during the period of 1950-53 Korean War, when working wartime-flat with three shifts a day, hundreds of thousand firearms were manufactured. Two submachine guns were then initiated at the Radom factory, using a new logo since 1950: an oval with ‘11’ code number within, giving rise to the ‘Works 11’ sobriquet. Between 1951 and 1955 as many as 111,000 ‘7.62 mm pm wz.41’s (a license-manufactured version of the Soviet PPSh 41) and several dozen thousands of the ‘7.62 mm pm wz.43’ (PPS 43) were manufactured, including a small-scale production of the .22LR training variant of the latter.

              On December 31, 1951 the Work Nr 1 was renamed again: this time to Zakłady Metalowe im. gen. Waltera (General Walter Metal Plant, taking its name from a Communist hero, Soviet general of Polish descent, Karol Świerczewski, whose Spanish Civil War nome-de-guerre was ‘General Walter’. This was the character Ernest Hemingway named ‘General Golz’ in his novel ‘For Whom The Bell Tolls’).


              Note the number of wz.44 carbines produced compared with the number of wz.41 & wz.43 SMGs - a ratio of more than 2 to 1.
              If the standard Soviet type slings were produced in Poland specifically for use with the wz.44 carbine (and in the numbers required for 343,000 carbines), we should be seeing far more of them than we do the Polish buckle type slings but that is demonstrably not the case. The Polish buckle type sling fitted all the Polish longarms of that period (wz.41, wz.43, wz.44 and wz.4 and evidence suggests that these were intended for/used for all of them. The few Polish 'Soviet-style' slings may have been intended for Soviet M91/30s the Poles inherited or a reserve/substitute standard.
              Member of the Aunty Jack Firearm Appreciation Society - "Now be a good little Aussie and learn how to shoot or I'll rip your bloody arms off......and I will too!"

              "Have you tried unloading it then reloading it?" - Roy Trenneman on fixing firearm problems

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              • #10
                I recently got two of these slings, one is ok but the other one looks like the leather straps have been baking in the sun, very dry and stiff. Can any one suggest a good leather dressing?

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                • #11
                  Get a good leather conditioner (try your local saddlery such as Horseland).
                  The one I use on my rifle slings & ammo pouches conditions the leather without staining it.
                  Put it on fairly thick, leave it for a few hours to let it sink in then wipe off the excess.

                  Leather polish or Neatsfoot oil can be used to recondition but they'll change the colour of the leather.
                  Member of the Aunty Jack Firearm Appreciation Society - "Now be a good little Aussie and learn how to shoot or I'll rip your bloody arms off......and I will too!"

                  "Have you tried unloading it then reloading it?" - Roy Trenneman on fixing firearm problems

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