"Sanitised" M91/59?

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  • "Sanitised" M91/59?

    Hey, quick question to the Mosin aficionados here (Zhuk, S/S, et al). In regards to an M91/59, what would the description "sanitised" refer to, as for the rifle in the link below? Woodwork looks brand new to me from the pics, so I'm assuming that it's been restocked and then not re-issued however would this just be an arsenal re-furb or does the term "sanitised" allude to something else in regards to these Mosins, such as a later non-arsenal refurb by an importer?

    http://firearmsales.com.au/listings/view-listings-premium.php?listing_id=7180


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  • #2
    That's a sanitised M1891/59 alright...
    No arsenal markings on the receiver, only the 1891/59 and the serial number.
    They're 'sanitised' by the refurb arsenal as part of the refurb so they could be provided to 'liberation' or insurgent organisations during the 1950s through to the 1970s by the ComBloc folks. The Yugoslavs did the same thing with their M-48 BO rifles - they had no markings save for the serial number.

    Other M1891/59 carbines retained their arsenal markings.

    Looks like a Czech stock, very clean and fairly light coloured.
    Member of the Aunty Jack Firearm Appreciation Society - "Now be a good little Aussie and learn how to shoot or I'll rip your bloody arms off......and I will too!"

    "Have you tried unloading it then reloading it?" - Roy Trenneman on fixing firearm problems

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      Cheers Dreadnought; that answers my question completely!

      Was actually reading an article recently about CIA operations in Central America back in the '80s &'90s and there was mention of caches of "sanitised" M14s & AR15s, which taking your explanation into account were probably devoid of arsenal/manufacturer's markings and possibly serial numbers too, so it looks like this practice has continued on (and probably into the present day too; I wonder how many small-arms being used by both sides in the current Syrian civil war, and that have been quietly supplied by foreign powers, have also been "sanitised"? since no-one wants to be seen to be publicly taking sides in this particular nasty little conflict).

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      Originally posted by Dreadnought1" post=26991
      That's a sanitised M1891/59 alright...
      No arsenal markings on the receiver, only the 1891/59 and the serial number.
      They're 'sanitised' by the refurb arsenal as part of the refurb so they could be provided to 'liberation' or insurgent organisations during the 1950s through to the 1970s by the ComBloc folks. The Yugoslavs did the same thing with their M-48 BO rifles - they had no markings save for the serial number.

      Other M1891/59 carbines retained their arsenal markings.

      Looks like a Czech stock, very clean and fairly light coloured.
      How reliable is that theory Dreadnought? I've never come across this theory, though granted, it's not an area of interest.

      I'm just thinking that large numbers of Soviet and Chinese arms were supplied as aid to various insurgencies or revolutionary movements without a thought about their markings etc. Maybe it has more to do with internal Warsaw Pact politics viz the appearance of Soviet markings? Just guessing.

  • #3
    In a similar vein, I have read of M16's being captured from rebels in Burma / Myanmah, being refered to as "Singer 16's"
    Supposedly manufactured in Singapore- and being sterile- no markings or serial numbers.

    pretty sure it was an old issue of "Defender" Magazine [or a similar Aussie military type publication], possibly an article about an Aussie SAS trooper who went over there to help the rebels.[on his own time]

    stephen
    all times wasted wots not spent shootin'

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    • #4
      Originally posted by GSR" post=26714
      Hey, quick question to the Mosin aficionados here (Zhuk, S/S, et al). In regards to an M91/59, what would the description "sanitised" refer to, as for the rifle in the link below? Woodwork looks brand new to me from the pics, so I'm assuming that it's been restocked and then not re-issued however would this just be an arsenal re-furb or does the term "sanitised" allude to something else in regards to these Mosins, such as a later non-arsenal refurb by an importer?

      http://firearmsales.com.au/listings/view-listings-premium.php?listing_id=7180

      So GSR.. Did you buy the "Sanitised"?? I went close to buying but decided on others before it.
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        Originally posted by Groggycoyote " post=31529
        ...So GSR.. Did you buy the "Sanitised"?? I went close to buying but decided on others before it.
        Nah, in the end I got one of the two Hungarian M44s he was also selling (I believe the other Hungarian M44 is still for sale on the site). I've always had a soft-spot for M44s so after I missed out on the Polish one that you managed to snag (lucky bugger) I decided to grab the Hungarian instead.

        Only just picked it up the other day actually (bloody PTA took almost 3 weeks!) and am at this moment in the process of giving it a good clean & oil (bolt is out in the shed soaking in Hoppes #9). The action is certainly original with all numbers matching with the 02 stamp liberally applied to everything and the bluing well worn in places, however judging by the condition of the bore, bolt-head and receiver internals the rifle appears to have been simply carried and drilled with for most of it's service life rather than been actually shot.

        It also has one of the sweetest triggers I've ever come across on a milsurp and is progressive, reasonably light with only a moderate amount of creep and is 10x better than the abomination installed in my 91/30. The stock has been refinished though and is not original; it appears to be Soviet (Hungarian stocks had blued sling escutcheons and the slot in the forewood was noticeably closer to the barrel band than the others), with an Izhevsk-stamped buttplate on it. I'll stick up a few pics here soon anyway.

    • #5
      Sounds like you did real well there, GSR!
      The Hungarian 48.M is generally a very nice piece of work...

      Looking forward to the pix...

      By the way, I think you were asking earlier on another thread about Hungarian slings...
      Check out this photo...Ten 48.M carbines in a crate...and look what's in a little compartments at the ends of the crate.....the slings!
      As mentioned, the Hungarians did use standard dog-collar types.
      Member of the Aunty Jack Firearm Appreciation Society - "Now be a good little Aussie and learn how to shoot or I'll rip your bloody arms off......and I will too!"

      "Have you tried unloading it then reloading it?" - Roy Trenneman on fixing firearm problems

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        Originally posted by Dreadnought1" post=31864
        ...Check out this photo...Ten 48.M carbines in a crate...and look what's in a little compartments at the ends of the crate.....the slings!...
        Man, that photo almost makes me want to cry! I remember seeing an ad from the 'States a couple of years ago where Cabellas were selling 91/30 refurbs for $89 each or $500 by the crate; imagine being in the position to be able to purchase a whole crate of Hungarian or Polish M44s still in-the-grease!

        That info from the site in the link concerning serial numbers was also very interesting. Seems that my '52 with the serial no AH4*** was an early build and the 35-odd thousandth out of a total production run of 160,000 units for the two years that the carbines were manufactured in Budapest; if only the serial numbers of Soviet-produced Mosins were as easily decipherable (apparently they were intentionally random so that "the enemy" would not be able to work out total production numbers or whether production during certain periods was being slowed down due to wartime pressures).

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        Originally posted by Dreadnought1" post=31864
        Sounds like you did real well there, GSR!
        The Hungarian 48.M is generally a very nice piece of work...

        Looking forward to the pix...

        By the way, I think you were asking earlier on another thread about Hungarian slings...
        Check out this photo...Ten 48.M carbines in a crate...and look what's in a little compartments at the ends of the crate.....the slings!
        As mentioned, the Hungarians did use standard dog-collar types.
        I can't load the photo, can you put the link up. Very keen to see sounds like some very interesting info.
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