Brno ZKW465 Extractor

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  • Brno ZKW465 Extractor

    I have a newly acquired 1953 ZKW465 in .22 Hornet.

    The rifle doesn't look like it's done an awful lot of work and is in great condition for it's age.

    I took it out and fired a few rounds through it today an noticed it would drop the empties in the receiver when pulling the bolt back, which is a bit annoying.

    It appears the extractor does not have much 'spring' in it and it won't hold a cartridge firmly in the bolt face. The 'claw' doesn't look worn.



    My question is would a new replacement extractor claw from a CZ 527 Hornet fit the ZKW465? and if so is such a part readily available.

    or is there a 'fix' that a gunsmith can perform so the extractor has more 'spring' in it?

    any info would be greatly appreciated.

  • #2
    the new cz extractor will go straight on have a good look and see that there is no crack on the extractor that will cause you problems

    Comment


    • #3
      ok cool, thanks.

      do I need to replace the collar the extractor clips too as well?

      I've had it off the bolt and it looks fine, no signs of any visible cracks. It clips into place and has spring in it, but it's like the brass diameter at the rim is just slightly too small for the extractor to get firm purchase on the rim.

      I've never owned a Hornet before, does the rim diameter vary by a few thou' from brand to brand?

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      • Guest's Avatar
        Guest commented
        Editing a comment
        Maybe a strip and clean of the bolt and if the shiny ring is a circlip spring squash it in a bit for more tension. I found my 442 is ejectIng Quiets better than Zeds so maybe something to do with the brand of case too?

    • #4
      I stripped the rifle and gave everything a good clean before shooting it.

      The clip that holds the extractor to the bolt does not appear to have any affect on how the claw sits alongside the bolt. The extractor is pretty tough spring steel so I reckon you cant re-tension that by hand.



      Even if you could it doesn't look like it would solve the issue. I reckon the very tip of the claw (the sharp bit) hat touches the rim needs a bit more reach.. say 0.010" then the shell rim would be a firm fit in the bolt face.

      Just a lay mans guess really.

      There could be something in the ammo thing too.

      I was given a box of really old shells that had 3 different brands (Winchester, R & P ? & IMI ? - never heard of the last two) in there and 'm not sure if they are factory loads or reloads.

      But the rims of all of the ammo I have are a 'loose fit in the bolt face.

      Comment


      • #5
        I have known blokes that have had the claw of the extractor built up if you know some one that is handy with a tig its worth a try it is a pain when the shell drops out like that

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        • #6
          Yep, I reckon it would be possible to build it up with a TIG but that's not a job for me.

          I had another look at it today and tried to put a bit more spring in it by giving it a bit of a bend behind the part that clips to the bolt ring.. no difference.

          One thing I noticed is the on spent shells I fired the primer had popped out a tiny bit preventing the rim from resting firmly against the wall of the recess in the bolt face opposite to the extractor claw.

          But even with unfired cartridges it doesn't hold them in the bolt face with any authority. I'll check out some new ammo and see how it goes, but I'm confident now it either needs a new extractor or the lip of the claw built up a bit.

          I'm in SW Vic (Shipwreck Coast), can anyone recommend a Gunsmith down my way or on the Western side of Melbourne? Maybe even Geelong?

          Feel free to put your hands up for the gig if any Gunsmiths in my area are reading this.

          Comment


          • adamjp
            adamjp commented
            Editing a comment
            A couple of observations.

            If the primer is backing out of the case then it is a sure sign of a headspace issue. What brand cases are you using? IIRC Winchester/Remington have relatively thin rims whilst Privi/RWS rims are thicker. This is due to differences between the SAAMI (US) and CIP (European) specification for the Hornet case.

            It sounds to me as if the extractor on your bolt has broken at some stage and has been replaced with a spare part. Trouble is, the spare part was for a 222/223 cartridge, not the Hornet cartridge.

        • #7
          Interesting.

          The shells I fired were very old Winchester Super Speed 45gr soft points.

          and old Euro rifle would surely be made to suit CIP Spec'd ammo you mentioned yes?

          I may need to get this rifle to a Gunsmith.

          Comment


          • #8
            do not be alarmed about the primers backing out in these old hornets that is a standard thing with them
            when you get this problem sorted out you will wish you had one of these rifles years ago
            I reload my hornet using small pistol primers 10gr win 296 and 40 gr 22 mag projectiles

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            • #9
              Ok thanks,

              I'll try some Euro brass and see if the extractor holds it a bit better.

              If it turns out the extractor needs work it'll go to a smith and I'll get headspace checked as well.

              I rang my LGS inquiring about obtaining a 527 extractor and they referred me to a guy in Heywood, which isn't far from me.

              Comment


              • Varmtr
                Varmtr commented
                Editing a comment
                Your extractor looks like its worn I'll check my zkw and compare it. Your extractor looks like its been popping over the rim instead of the rim sliding under the extractor. After a while these extractors don't like it and you start having problems. A 527 extractor needs a slight mod which I can't remember to work in a zkw. This is what the shop call The Gunsmiths told me.

            • #10
              I put a new 527 extractor on my zkw bolt on Saturday arvo and used it Saturday night with out any problems there was nothing wrong with the original extractor just had to try it

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              • Varmtr
                Varmtr commented
                Editing a comment
                Pisco did you have to do any mods on the 527 extractor ?
                I think I may have to get a couple for mine.

            • #11
              I did not have to do any mods

              Comment


              • Varmtr
                Varmtr commented
                Editing a comment
                Originally posted by pisco" post=26271
                I did not have to do any mods
                Excellent thanks Pisco. I'll order a couple for mine.

            • #12
              hi you need to batch your brass get the rim thickness all the same
              to head space a hornet get a small pistol primer put in a sized case not loaded and fire it measure the case before and after and that will tell you if you have a problem

              Comment


              • Brno Fox
                Brno Fox commented
                Editing a comment
                ok, will do.

                when you say measure the case before and after firing do you mean the overall length of the case? or the rim + primer if it's sticking out after firing? what should I be looking for here?

                I did a bit of fiddling around with a dummy round and some shims.. (I know it's not the correct way of doing it) .. if you attach a 0.005" metal shim to the back of a 0.060" rim with some thin cyanoacrylate making it a 0.065" rim and then chamber it then the bolt won't close.
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