QLD - Safe Storage inspection

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  • QLD - Safe Storage inspection

    Some may have picked up on a few other threads my belief that a safe storage inspection should be just that, NOT a search of your house and audit of your firearms.
    It would be about 12 weeks ago that I posed the question to WLB and here is the reply. I shall mention, but not comment on the veiled threat herein. Suffice to say you are only MANDATED to have a safe storage check as part of the licence application or as part of a Permit To Acquire process. Anything outside of that is voluntary, opening your safe is voluntary.

    Section 41 (1)(c) and Section 14(1)(c) of the Weapons Act 1990, when read in conjunction with Section 10(2)(c) of the Weapons Act 1990 provides the Authorised Officer authority to inspect storage as part of the licence/Permit to acquire application process and if the storage is not compliant, the application can be refused. The use of the term may provides the Authorised Officer discretion in the use of this power.

    The random, weapon inspection program is Australasian Police Ministers’ Council national initiative, aimed at reducing the number of illicit guns in the community. The audits are conduct by arrangement with the licensees and conducted by local police at the local level. Due to the co-operation of the law abiding community with this national initiative, there has been no need to introduce specific legislative provisions for the random audit procedures to date.

  • #2
    Tim this is what I was saying about going above and beyond the min requirements
    low and behold the safe storage inspectors now expect everyone to comply
    Sent via pony express and mail plane

    You know that moment when the steak is on the grill and your mouth waters in anticipation? Vegans feel the same after mowing the lawn.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by tinytim" post=38041
      Some may have picked up on a few other threads my belief that a safe storage inspection should be just that, NOT a search of your house and audit of your firearms.
      It would be about 12 weeks ago that I posed the question to WLB and here is the reply. I shall mention, but not comment on the veiled threat herein. Suffice to say you are only MANDATED to have a safe storage check as part of the licence application or as part of a Permit To Acquire process. Anything outside of that is voluntary, opening your safe is voluntary.

      Section 41 (1)(c) and Section 14(1)(c) of the Weapons Act 1990, when read in conjunction with Section 10(2)(c) of the Weapons Act 1990 provides the Authorised Officer authority to inspect storage as part of the licence/Permit to acquire application process and if the storage is not compliant, the application can be refused. The use of the term may provides the Authorised Officer discretion in the use of this power.

      The random, weapon inspection program is Australasian Police Ministers’ Council national initiative, aimed at reducing the number of illicit guns in the community. The audits are conduct by arrangement with the licensees and conducted by local police at the local level. Due to the co-operation of the law abiding community with this national initiative, there has been no need to introduce specific legislative provisions for the random audit procedures to date.
      I shall choose to open my safe and display my safes contents if I choose to, or not.

      Happy for my safe to be identified. Happy for its weight or security to be manually tested.

      What is inside my safe is my business and mine alone.

      Thanks,

      Oddball.

      Comment


      • jasmay
        jasmay commented
        Editing a comment
        What Oddball said, and if they turn up unannounced as j have heard has been happening, it won't be a convenient time!!!

    • #4
      Iis it not in our best interest to be as helpful / respectful as possible to Mr plod..... If time allows, and everything in the safe is legal... than what is the problem with letting him account for all our toys...

      Cant and wont speak for others, but I would happily assist Mr Plod to do his Job.
      Hello.

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      • Guest's Avatar
        Guest commented
        Editing a comment
        Originally posted by patrolit" post=38070
        Iis it not in our best interest to be as helpful / respectful as possible to Mr plod..... If time allows, and everything in the safe is legal... than what is the problem with letting him account for all our toys...
        If I get knocked off, they will be the first I will call. Until then, they will just have to trust me.....

      • fishphillott
        fishphillott commented
        Editing a comment
        Originally posted by patrolit" post=38070
        Iis it not in our best interest to be as helpful / respectful as possible to Mr plod..... If time allows, and everything in the safe is legal... than what is the problem with letting him account for all our toys...
        would you feel the same if they rocked up at 0300 for a search of your home just in case you were doing the wrong thing

    • #5
      Everyone is perfectly entitled to choose to do what they want. At least now it is an informed choice.
      You can stand by your rights and protect your privacy (and your wallet), or
      You can voluntarily sacrifice your rights and submit to a search in the hope of a quick win

      Just be aware they are looking for non compliance because they have a revenue target to meet, they are not visiting to advise you, they are visiting to fine you.

      As for wasting their time, if their colleagues did the job properly in the first place they, they wouldn't be at your door!

      Comment


      • sirus17
        sirus17 commented
        Editing a comment
        im sort of torn on this topic, i dont like the idea of mr plod rocking up when ever they choose but i also can understand with being an open book
        i also dont think they are there to fine you, they just check a list off rattle the safe and see if its loose and if it does not meet standards they give you 2 weeks to get it up to scratch, no fine.

      • findingtime
        findingtime commented
        Editing a comment
        Originally posted by tinytim" post=38111

        Just be aware they are looking for non compliance because they have a revenue target to meet, they are not visiting to advise you, they are visiting to fine you.

        !
        Tim

        I think your a fraction paranoid .

        I have been checked 4 times now , on all of those occasion I've been contacted first to arrange a time , on one of those occasion the officer stated they were just around the corner and could they come straight round , I stated that that wouldn't be convenient ( no other reason given)and another appointment was made , no issues ! I have never felt intimidated , and most times the offices have spent more time admiring my rifles and checking serial numbers was very much an after thought . On one occasion there was an issue with a serial no. That could have instigated further inquiry but the accepted my explanation at face value , and didn't race for the FINE BOOK !!!

        They are required to check 10% of rife arms every year , the list of who they check are generated by Weapons Branch , the police officers who are doing the checks would much rather in my experience be doing something else. They are just seeing that the weapons you have are both correctly stored and still in your possession , and they tell me it's amazing the firearms they still inspect stored in a cupboard and weapons that are supposed to be in someone's possession no longer being able to be produced without reasonable explanation . If people get caugh doing these things I have no sympathy for them .

        I have never had a police officer look at any other part of my home other that's when my firearms are stored , I have no issue with police checks and try to help them out as much as I can . I don't consider the process infringing on my right and feel I'm representing the shooting community well by showing I'm a mature and reasonable firearms owner , god know we need more of them !

        My 2c

        FT

    • #6
      Frankly, I can't see mr Plod himself is exactly excited at the prospect of boring visits to houses/properties for safe storage compliance, regardless of which state we are talking about - let alone if someone has 40 or 50 firearms to check.... serial numbers, paperwork....now where's the ammo?....

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      • Guest's Avatar
        Guest commented
        Editing a comment
        Originally posted by macca41" post=38231
        Frankly, I can't see mr Plod himself is exactly excited at the prospect of boring visits to houses/properties for safe storage compliance, regardless of which state we are talking about - let alone if someone has 40 or 50 firearms to check.... serial numbers, paperwork....now where's the ammo?....
        And that is a good point, they come looking for what?
        The argument is that they are looking for illicit firearms, who keeps them in the safe?

        The ONLY thing this audit program does is to correct their database, (the one you and I paid a fee to be logged on to).

        Oh! sorry I forgot, the other thing it does is open you up to copping a fine or loosing your firearms.
        The other point is where the search stops. I have 3 safes, only one has firearms in it, do I have to open the other 2? Do they need to see my secure area for powder storage?

        The answer is that the law draws that line. There is no search, there is a safe storage check and it occurs as part of the licence application or PTA process.

    • #7
      I use to work for the US government so I know how this works. You may not want to believe its this way here but rest assured it is. Weather you are in Iraq or new Orleans or right here in brisbane, the right to search is the right to Seize. Simple as that. If you allow these guys to search you when they have no LAWFUL right to do so. You open yourself up to all kinds of penalties. Up to and including seizure of your stuff. To the wonderfully naive gentlemen who believes nothing will happen to him because he has done nothing wrong and followed all the rules...there is no other way to say this...you are in fact mistaken. I know a lot of people who were perfectly innocent and who still got in trouble with the law. Some found themselves in jail. Most lawyers will not keep you as a client if you allow an UNLAWFUL SEARCH of yourself or your property. Its just a legal liability.
      "He got the whole nine yards" - as it happens World War II (1939–1945) aircraft machine gun belts (US 50 cal) were nine yards long.

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      • Guest's Avatar
        Guest commented
        Editing a comment
        Originally posted by Laflamme" post=38321
        I use to work for the US government so I know how this works. You may not want to believe its this way here but rest assured it is. Weather you are in Iraq or new Orleans or right here in brisbane, the right to search is the right to Seize. Simple as that. If you allow these guys to search you when they have no LAWFUL right to do so. You open yourself up to all kinds of penalties. Up to and including seizure of your stuff. To the wonderfully naive gentlemen who believes nothing will happen to him because he has done nothing wrong and followed all the rules...there is no other way to say this...you are in fact mistaken. I know a lot of people who were perfectly innocent and who still got in trouble with the law. Some found themselves in jail. Most lawyers will not keep you as a client if you allow an UNLAWFUL SEARCH of yourself or your property. Its just a legal liability.
        That's it folks.......

        Know your rights. Let those testicles drop and use them.

    • #8
      How often do they come and inspect? I've had my licence over 10 years moved four times and never have i either been contacted for, or had the police rock up to do an inspection. I've always had everything done right and locked up, I wonder if my locals are just to busy for that sort of thing?

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      • #9
        Alright, so, it's their legal right to look at the safe and make sure it complies with safe storage from the outside during the licence/PTA process but other than that they can't legally get you to open the safe without a warrant or whatever?

        My question is: WHEN can you be ordered to open the safe (if at all) and what do you tell them if they ask you to open it to check your ammo storage or rifle etc? Will they just take no for an answer and go away or will it be all "Why say no mate? got something to hide?"

        Just trying to get this all straight.

        Cheers.

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        • Guest's Avatar
          Guest commented
          Editing a comment
          Originally posted by Ray_Vengeance" post=76521
          My question is: WHEN can you be ordered to open the safe (if at all) and what do you tell them if they ask you to open it to check your ammo storage or rifle etc? Will they just take no for an answer and go away or will it be all "Why say no mate? got something to hide?".
          On the issue of opening your in the course of a safe strorage inspection: Isn't it the case that during a designated safe storage inspection the coppers are required to confirm that the safe is firmly affixed to the wall and/or floor which involves visually examining the mounting bolts/screws to determine that they conform to regulations in regards to number and type (I know we hear stories of coppers in a hurry just visually glancing at a locked safe and signing off on it, however they are not doing their jobs strictly speaking if they do so), which requires opening the safe anyway as the anchor bolt/screw-heads are located on the inside?

      • #10
        I had an inspection done about 12 mths ago, got the letter, made a time that suited me. They came out on a Sunday morning took about 5 minutes, didn't require the safe's to be opened couldn't be bothered checking storage of ammo etc. Just did a visual and a quick shake test.
        Very easy do the right thing keep them happy

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        • #11
          Notably nobody has a large collection and had their inspection by the plods from WLB.

          In Qld if you have over 29 firearms at the one premise, the inspection can't be done by the local station. I had spent $1700 on a huge custom steel safe made from 6mm plate duly bolted to the floor with 8 x M16 Dynabolts, shielded hinges and three deadlocks on each door. I weighed 360kgs.

          Day of the inspection, first warning came from having a lathe and milling machine, "Do you make parts?""Yes" "Then you can be charged for working as an armourer without the appropiate license!" "No, I make parts for my own guns and I don't sell them" "We'll have our eye on you from now on!"

          They had a laptop with each guns registration and checked off every one. Then the crunch, your security is non compliant! As you have over 29 'weapons' these must be housed in a vault; a vault must be made of double brick or concrete block; you cannot have one made of steel

          I was made to transport everything to an approved storage until I had a vault (300km away) then when the vault was re-inspected, I could transport everything back home.

          That little éxercise' and audit cost me $9,000

          Hold still varmint, whilst I plugs ya!

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          • Guest's Avatar
            Guest commented
            Editing a comment
            Originally posted by Bad Ass Wallace" post=76560
            Notably nobody has a large collection and had their inspection by the plods from WLB.

            In Qld if you have over 29 firearms at the one premise, the inspection can't be done by the local station. I had spent $1700 on a huge custom steel safe made from 6mm plate duly bolted to the floor with 8 x M16 Dynabolts, shielded hinges and three deadlocks on each door. I weighed 360kgs.

            Day of the inspection, first warning came from having a lathe and milling machine, "Do you make parts?""Yes" "Then you can be charged for working as an armourer without the appropiate license!" "No, I make parts for my own guns and I don't sell them" "We'll have our eye on you from now on!"

            They had a laptop with each guns registration and checked off every one. Then the crunch, your security is non compliant! As you have over 29 'weapons' these must be housed in a vault; a vault must be made of double brick or concrete block; you cannot have one made of steel

            I was made to transport everything to an approved storage until I had a vault (300km away) then when the vault was re-inspected, I could transport everything back home.

            That little éxercise' and audit cost me $9,000
            Ouch! Pretty sure (because I'm looking at it) that the requirement for more than 30 weapons is a compliant storeroom OR vault. Less than 30 weapons falls to the requirements of s60(2) to (4), which are the normal requirements for any licence holder.
            If your safe complied with "storeroom" you were badly advised. Not forgetting that there is a difference between a firearm and a weapon. A pernanantly inoperable firearm is not a weapon. And the commissioner can approve alternative storage.

        • #12
          There has been some "talk" for sometime of an even greater level of security for collections over 60 firearms.
          Hold still varmint, whilst I plugs ya!

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